Interview with Lynette Hagins: 6/2 Ego Manifestor, Professional Analyst, Human Design Teacher, and IHDS Administrator


Published 05/17/2020
Lynette Crisfield

Amy: In some episodes, we explore how to relate Human Design to other systems and teachings. In others, we look at Human Design as a personal experiment through the eyes of experienced teachers. Today’s episode is one of the latter, where we were lucky to sit with one of our favorite people, Lynette Hagins. She’s a professional Analyst and teacher as well as a Living Design Guide, and the administrator for the International Human Design School (IHDS). Today, she tells us about her experience as a 6/2 Ego Manifestor, bringing her natural humor, honesty, and wisdom. We talked about fractals, major life cycles, and the relationship between body and mind. She’s someone we truly trust and enjoy. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Lynette, we are really happy to have you here. Thanks for joining us today. We thought we’d start by just introducing you a little bit. Both of us have had the pleasure of knowing you for a little while in a couple of different realms. Maybe you can start by just telling us a little bit about what you’re doing currently, or how you work with Human Design. Maybe how it came to you. How long have you been playing with this crazy world?

Lynette: I am, technically, in the Human Design world, a Human Design Analyst and teacher. I teach some of the professional courses and you guys are aware of that. Let’s see, I first met Human Design in 2006. It was just kind of one of those things where a girlfriend mentioned it to me. It’s funny, she was a manifestor too. “Bla, bla, bla Human Design,” and I was like, “Whoa, what did you say?” It really grabbed me cellularly, which it tends to do for many of us. I was like, “Well, I have to find out more about that.” So, I looked it up.

I love Hawaii, so I ended up getting a reading from someone in Maui, a really great analyst. She did a really good job and sent it to me on a cassette if you can believe that. That’s how old it is. I kind of played with it and I listened to it. Something was kind of missing, so I got another reading again in 2009. What had happened to me was- I was right at my Uranus opposition. For those of you who are familiar with astrology, it’s kind of like the midlife crisis. When you kind of ask yourself, “What the hell’s going on? Am I climbing the wrong ladder? Am I doing what I’m supposed to be doing?”

I was really hitting the wall. I was in a 10-year relationship and I had a 10-year career in real estate. It’s not like anything was outwardly wrong, but inside, I could feel that I just wasn’t being myself or something wasn’t authentic. I had one of those ‘Come to Jesus’, for lack of a better word, moments. One of those prayers that you have on the bathroom floor, like, “Please, I need help here.” For me, I was literally taking a bath, and I just had one of those super hard like, “Please, I need some guidance. I need a teacher. I need somebody or something to show up because I feel really lost right now and I don’t know why.” Within a week or two, Human Design came back into my life, and I got another reading.

This time, the analyst barely said anything to me. We were looking at my chart, and he said something like, “Oh, well, that’s not you.” Just those words, something shocked me out of my way of being and it all of a sudden hit me really hard. I was like, “Oh my god, this is amazing.” Within three months, I left my job, real estate was falling apart then anyway, and a 10-year relationship that just wasn’t working for either of us. I moved from California to Santa Cruz and slept on the floor of my kid’s house. I have to tell the truth. That’s what happened to me.

People say that the veil lifts. For me, it’s like the veil slammed, and it slammed very hard. I woke up the day after my reading- I’ve told this story. I’m sure you’ve heard it. I was lying in bed, and before I even opened my eyes, before realizing I was even consciously awake, I could see and hear, not audibly, but I could hear my mind for really the first time screaming at me. “You can’t do this,” and I was like, “Oh, I get it now. I get it. I’m not my mind. I don’t have to listen to this anymore.” Then slowly, I started dismantling all the things. Within three months, I had pretty much lit a match to everything and moved on.

From there, I ended up going to Kauai and studying with John Martin, taking my foundation course from him. When people ask me, “How can I be a Human Design teacher and an Analyst,” I just kind of laugh. I swear to you, it’s not like I had in my head, “I’m going to do this.” All I knew was that my life wasn’t working for me. I just said, “Forget it. I’m not going to listen to my mind anymore. I’m going to use my Authority, my Ego Authority. I’m just going to do what that says.”

It’s really common for my will to say one thing and for my Authority and my mind to say, “That’s ridiculous.” It was scary. I had to do things that were very scary to me, to where my family was like, “What the hell are you doing?” I’ve got three grown kids. I just knew that I wanted to be an Analyst, to give readings. That’s all that I knew. I was hoping I could work at home. I kept saying, “I want a job where I can work at home.” My kids were like, “Well, good luck with that.” I just kept saying that, and the way that this turned out, I ended up initiating with Lynda Bunnell, who was the director of the International Human Design School, and the first time I asked her, “Hey, do you have any work?” She said, “No, gosh, I wish I could hire you, but I don’t.” The second time I asked her. She said, “Yeah, as a matter of fact, I might have something for you.” That’s kind of how I became a teacher. I got my analyst training because I was teaching it. None of it was planned. That’s a mouthful.

Amy: It’s interesting the way you’re talking about it because I’ve been thinking about what it’s like for people when they first get a reading. For some people, there’s some kind of immediate recognition, or it leads to some kind of action. However, it seems like for a lot of people, it might be similar to what you went through where something kind of goes in and then you percolate with it for a little while. It’s almost like at some point, a bomb goes off inside of you. It’s like, “Oh, wow, I’m getting what this is.” Then things start shattering, breaking, falling apart, and disintegrating. The things that don’t work for us are the things that we can’t not face anymore or something. It seems it happened to me that way. I think it happens to a lot of people. It’s almost like a bomb going off.

Lynette: You see it, and once you see it, it reaches this point where you can’t unsee it.

John: The phrase that comes to mind to me is “You can’t put the genie back in the bottle.” There’s no going back from there. Once you’ve seen it, as you guys are describing, it can be either a sudden process or something that’s happening over time. I think it happens over time regardless, but there are these different moments of either things completely collapsing, falling apart, or losing the points of reference that we’ve previously had. As we start that deconditioning process, the mind starts loosening its grip on life to some degree.

Lynette: It’s pretty funny when I look at it because I’m a 6/2 Profile. When I got that reading, I had exactly seven years and two weeks to prepare for my Chiron. I had one full seven-year cycle to get from my Uranus, it’s like it came just in the nick of time. For anybody that’s not aware of this, it takes a full seven years to cellularly decondition. Don’t get excited, because after seven years, you just keep going. That’s when you can actually kind of start to learn to walk. We’re just crawling until then, but you can kind of start to begin to start navigating your experience then.

Amy: From there, can you share a little bit with us about the difference in the experience of the Uranus opposition and the Chiron return for you? It sounds like it came at a really particular time in your life, right at that seven-year mark. How was that? What was the difference between those cycles for you?

Lynette: Let’s put it this way, I can say it in a word as far as like the name of my Uranus opposition. It was called the Left Angle Cross of Upheaval, and it was freaking upheaval. From the moment it took hold, it was constant upheaval. It takes a while. You don’t just hit the date and all of a sudden you’re there. It takes three and a half years to kind of integrate into it and experience more of it. In Human Design, the effect of the Uranus Opposition can last until we die. However, you feel it more concentrated, especially for the first three years. It was just upheaval for me. I basically let go of everything that wasn’t working and started following my Authority into my own life, to see what was working, to see what would work.

When you’re doing that, the Authority can often guide you in a way that your mind absolutely thinks is just insane. It’s just scary. I held on to my Strategy and Authority like a lifeboat. My Authority didn’t say that, and my family was like, “Are you insane right now? How can you possibly go and rent a place from a friend (who was able to rent it to me) when you don’t have a job to pay the rent? How can you do that?” I’m like, “Oh, my God, I don’t know, but I’m doing it.” It’s like getting a job.

Living in a one-bed, literally one room, I was so happy. I didn’t have any work, it’s before I was working. I started to apply for things. I was like, “Well, I worked for a holistic veterinarian in Kauai, I can do that.” So I applied for many jobs. A lot of the job interviews I got, I wouldn’t even go on because my Authority was like, “No.” I’m not somebody that’s going to be super lazy and mooch off people all the time. I’m not like that, certainly I didn’t think I was. Then I applied for a job at a vet clinic because I had just done that. I went in on my first day, in kind of an affluent area. Think about it, people with their pets that are sick, and they all have an attitude. You can kind of imagine what it’s like. To all of you pet owners out there, I love you, no offense. However, when your pet is sick, I get it.

I was dealing with all this stuff, like a computer program I didn’t know how to work, and the girls wouldn’t train me. Nobody would train me. Everybody was in a bad mood because one of the doctors had quit. I sat there for about no more than 30 minutes or so. I literally watched myself get up out of the chair, and walk out the door. As I was walking out the door, I turned around and looked at the receptionist and I said, “Please have the doctor call me.” I went home and I cried for like three days. I was like, “You idiot, why don’t you just keep this job until you have another job. You didn’t have to quit Lynette,” but I had to quit.

Long story short, that’s when I eventually got to meet Lynda Bunnell and I ended up getting the job for my analyst training. I really want people to understand that in the beginning, it’s scary. It’s scary until you can really start to trust your Authority. It’s still scary, but not in the same way. After you go through a few decisions that seem really significant for you, like quitting your job, taking a new job, leaving a relationship, or moving. When you go through a few of those big decisions, you trust it anyway even though it doesn’t make sense. Over time, you begin to trust it more and more because you can see that it works.

Amy: I can really relate to that. I remember in the early years feeling like what you’re saying. There were things that I could see, and I couldn’t unsee them. That got louder over time, the awareness that I was having. My mind still had a little bit of a thought of like, “Well, I can still keep some control over some of these things. Maybe I can manage to kind of worm my way through and still think that I can be in control.” At some point, the rubber meets the road and you’re going to be faced with some sort of a choice point where you have that experience. Where your mind is saying one thing and your Authority or your body is saying something else, and you just have to let go, take the leap, and find the courage to follow this other thing. Like you’re saying, when you do that enough, you start to be able to trust something else. The feeling I have when you’re talking is almost like something else starts to pull you along.

Lynette: That’s exactly what’s happening. It’s that magnetic monopole, that magnet that only attracts, that pulls us along. It’s funny my mind still thinks that. My mind still thinks it’s going to have control. I still watch it and it still does that. That’s okay, but it’s just not true. From my experience, just let it be. In the beginning, for me, I had to do the Warrior’s Path thing. I had to do that, it’s what I needed to do. That did soften for me after a while. Hating your mind in the long run doesn’t really work. It doesn’t help. It’s a part of us. It’s brilliant. It has amazing things that it can do and reflect on in perspective. For you, as a Mental Projector, and John, are you an Ego Projector? Is that right?

John: I’m an Ego Projector.

Lynette: Right, okay, and Amy’s a mental projector. You get that, but in the beginning, I couldn’t even go in there. I couldn’t even go into my head to look for things because I had to stick to what I was doing. It’s not like that now so much, but that was just my process.

John: It’s interesting to think about this question of control from the point of view of the Ego Will-Based Authority. We both share that. I have gate 21 fine there too. What I’m kind of thinking about or wondering about is, the sense of control that comes from your Will, committing to something, wanting something, and seeing that through versus the mind trying to control things and trying to control your life. Do you have a sense of that, in your experience, when you’re working with the Ego as an Authority?

Lynette: It’s feeling into it over time. First of all, I can tell with my voice. If I’m saying something, and it sounds strong and it’s just hitting, I’ve got it, I’m an ego manifestor. I’ve got a punch to my voice. It’s a bit intense. If it’s like that, I know it’s true. That’s why talking out loud can help me if I’m just saying something. At the same time, I can feel into my body while I’m talking. I can sense, “That’s hitting.” If I get butterflies in my stomach, or maybe my voice goes up a couple of octaves, it’s not the right time. It’s just timing.

Here’s an example, in the beginning, when I got a job as a school administrator, not long after Lynda came to me, and said, “Would you like to teach?” I was like, “Yeah! Really? I could be a teacher?” I thought I could be a teacher years down the road. She was like, “Well, you’ve taken the class like three times, I think you could probably teach it.” I said, “Yeah, let me just go through my process.” I kind of went through my process, and it just wasn’t there. I would talk it out and the timing wasn’t right. So, I had to tell her no. Of course, again, I cried for three days. It was like, “You idiot, you can’t say no, this is career suicide. Why would you say no to this?” Again, I had to say no. She laughed at me. She said, “Don’t worry about it. I’ll ask you again. The timing is just not right.” Thank God for Lynda Bunnell. She did ask me again. The second time I didn’t have all that. I was still nervous, but my Ego was hitting, my Authority was hitting. It was the right time, and I did it. That’s kind of my process.

The other thing is, it’s also what you do. It’s like, I’m going to make a cup of tea before class. My mind says, “Oh, I really want that organic tea from Kauai, this GMO-free…” in my mind. Then, I go up to my tea cabinet, which is expansive, because I have an open spleen, and I’m into all sorts of herbal remedies. I reach for a completely different cup of tea with my hand. I don’t override that. I’m like, “Oh, I guess my body wants some caffeine.” I don’t override it anymore. If I want to go for a walk- do I want to go for a walk if I leave the house? Sometimes I’ll go for a drive instead. Sometimes I’ll go for a walk. My mind will say, “Well, if we turn right, we’ll go to the pier. Let’s go to the pier.” Sometimes when I get to the end of the path, I turn left. It’s also just seeing what my body’s doing, what’s hitting, and what’s not hitting.

If I feel angry as a Manifestor- that took a long time to really own that. If I start to feel angry, the first thing I have to do is I have to let myself feel it. Then, I kind of ask myself, “Is there someone I need to inform?” This is my strategy. Do I need to let somebody know something that’s pissing me off? 90% of the time, I’m angry because it’s a story in my head. With that being the case, I just need to drop the story. Do I need to inform someone or not? There are many different clues.

When I do a reading for people I lead with, if I could tell you only one thing in this reading, the first thing I would tell you, and the most important thing, is that you’re not your mind. I lead with that. You’ve got to get that out of the way. I kind of say, “It’s not about hating your mind. Your mind is beautiful, but it’s not your friend when it comes to telling you what to do.” We live in a program. You can start off by telling people, “We’re not in control,” and all that stuff, but it doesn’t work. I don’t like to be the dasher of dreams anyway. Well, that’s not true, sometimes I do. It’s just understanding that it’s okay. It talks, it does what it does.

Amy: Can you tell us a little bit about what it was like to first encounter the concept of being a Manifestor? What was your reaction to that when you first heard it?

Lynette: First of all, I knew it was true. My girlfriend said to me, she’s a Manifestor, much more of a Manifestor, she says to me, “No, no, no, you’re one of those Generator Types. You like to do things to have people bring it to you and do it.” She’s like, “Yeah, that’s like who you are.” I’m like, “No, that’s not right.” I knew inside of me, it wasn’t right. I was a Manifestor before I even ran my birthday, I just knew it. I ran my birthday, and I confirmed it. I thought, “Well, I’m just the worst Manifestor in the world.” I still think that all the time because there’s a misconception out there that if you are a Manifestor, you are always initiating, all the time. It’s one of the first things that I asked Ra, when he was alive.

He was on Facebook, and he was really generous with me. I emailed him, and I was like, “Dude, you’ve got to help me. I’ve given up everything for this, you have to help me. People keep telling me I’m not initiating or informing enough. I need to be initiating all the time. It doesn’t feel right to me. It feels really mental. I don’t want to initiate all these things right now.” He said to me, “It sounds to me as if you’re being correct. You have to listen to what you say.” That’s what he said, what you say out loud with your voice spontaneously, not like, “Ooh, I’m going to do a podcast with Amy and John. I’m going to say all these really cool things that make me look smart.” That shit never works. Just listen to what flows out of you spontaneously. I started doing that.

In the beginning, when I started talking, and just blah, blah, blah- I was living with my daughter at the time. I would say things, and I would feel the power come out of my voice. I wouldn’t hear what I said. Ra thought that was so funny. I told him and he laughed, and he said, “You know, that’s so funny. That’s really cute. Just stay with it. Eventually, your mind will get over its jealousy.” I would look at my daughter, and it would usually be so intense like people would be standing there with their mouths open. I would go, “What did I just say?” She said, “You said blah, blah, blah.” I would be like, “Oh.” That lasted a couple of weeks and then that went away.

The thing about being a Manifestor is we don’t have to wait for other people to initiate, but we do need to be moved by our Authority. I don’t initiate when I’m being correct. I don’t initiate what I think I want, I have to be moved by my Authority. I encourage any Manifestor out there to play with it and treat it like an experiment. A few years ago, I had somebody telling me, “You’re not informing enough. You need to be doing podcasts. Why don’t you have a newsletter? You need to be doing YouTube videos.” I was like, “I don’t want to do any of that shit.” That felt really true, but they kept at me, and I said, “Okay, I’m going to experiment with this to see if I’m wrong.” So, I sent out a newsletter for the first time. I advertised in an LYD course and you guys, I hated every minute of it. I hated it. What I see is that I initiate things, but it’s not necessarily what everybody else thinks I should be initiating.

The other thing is I’m three parts right in my variable, I’ve got a lot of stuff about waiting in my nodes. It’s that. So, the manifestor does initiate, but for me, it’s really going to be by my will. The other thing is, you have to think of it like this, since the whole world is conditioned through no fault of their own, to be Manifestors and go out in the world and make it happen- we’re all kind of raised like that. Everybody around me is, for lack of a better word, a better Not-Self manifestor than I am a manifestor. It’s not easy, let’s put it that way. It’s not easy to live this Design. It’s very self-contained, the auras repelling. A lot of people hear the word repulsive, I did not say repulsive. it’s repelling. All that means is that it pushes back.

We can make people uncomfortable. I can meet somebody, and within 30 seconds, they can decide that they can’t stand me and they don’t like me. It happens all the time. After a while, you learn that you don’t have to overcompensate and be friendly all the time. You can just be yourself and the people that are there for you are the right people. We’re thought of as this huge, super powerful being, and we are, but everybody’s powerful. We’re just powerful in different ways.

Amy: Do you see it as being really different as a woman manifestor?

Lynette: I don’t know what it’s like to be a man, obviously, so I can only speak from my perspective. Basically, women are classically more nurturing and more Yin than men. It’s a very masculine Design. I’ve had a couple of times, in my experience over the years where I’ll just be sitting alone in my room. This is so weird, and I can’t explain it, but all of a sudden, I’ll feel so Yang, so masculine. I will feel this power with my whole body, and I’ll be like, “Holy crap.” I’ve literally had to go up and look in a mirror just to make sure that I’m still five foot two, still have blonde hair, and that I’m still a girl. I’m not kidding, it’s that intense. Sometimes you can really feel it. It’s just this fire. We’re born with this fire. The dilemma is, that parents immediately encounter the Manifestor child as unpredictable. Ra says, “Uh oh,” in the delivery room, “Uh oh, one of those. We better control it.” You get over-controlled, and the fire gets doused. What we really want to do as parents of Manifestors is keep that fire alive. It’s really hard to start a fire when all you’ve got is a flickering ember. I’m still doing it. I’ve built it up to a little flame, but it’s kind of withering. It’s not a big roaring fire yet. I’m still stepping into it. It takes time. I need a few more lifetimes, I think.

Amy: I think it’s a long road. I appreciate the way you’re talking about it. Obviously, we live in a culture that’s so instant gratification-focused, and there are certainly a lot of other types of systems or programs that are easier to sell than Human Design in that way. It certainly seems to me like the truth of it is, that it’s a long, slow, time and space-based process. It is. Things happen suddenly and explode suddenly in certain ways sometimes. Overall, it’s a long process to get back to ourselves and then live that out in this crazy material world we live in.

Lynette: It is and why would you want to do that anyway? My mind doesn’t want to do that. There have been times when I’ve been like, “Oh, please God, just give me the blue pill. I’ll forget it. I’m going to throw my computer at the wall. I don’t want the red pill anymore. Give me the blue pill.” You guys know how it is. Once you reach a certain point, you can’t unsee what you’ve seen. You can’t go back. There’s this term by an author, Cormac McCarthy. I love the term ‘post-uterine gestation’. It’s macabre. It’s like being born outside of the body, but only being partially formed. I’m sorry, it’s gross, but that’s why you have to keep going. Once you reach a certain point, it’s not time to sit back and go, “I’m going to kind of follow my Strategy and Authority.” As RA said, “You can’t be half pregnant.” When it comes to waiting and following your Strategy and Authority, you have to keep going. It’s never-ending. It’s not like all of a sudden you get there. It’s constant deconditioning. This is my perspective. After a while you really, you start to see that, “Wow, I’m not doing anything because there is no limit.” There’s no ‘I’. You can get into that whole discussion. You can’t sell this, who wants to buy that?

Amy: It’s a funny business to be in.

Lynette: It really is, it’s still a business. Sometimes people will say, “Well, I think it should be free because blah, blah, blah.” I’m like, “Yeah, well, fine. Bye. I don’t care, because I’m charging money today! This is what I’m charging right now for the bargain, doesn’t mean it won’t be free tomorrow.

Amy: Did you have something you wanted to say, John?

John: Touching on this phenomenon that we see, this ‘manifest your own reality’ or ‘create the life that you want’- as you guys are saying, that’s often a lot easier to market or sell to people versus any version of no choice, or surrender, or your life may fall apart if you go through this process. With Manifestor conditioning in our society, from a young age, we’re just pushed in that direction across the board. In some cases, we’re talking about manifestors who were then conditioned to respond or be Generators, and then they stop manifesting or the fires snuffed out on a certain level. How do you see that from the point of view of being a manifestor? You were saying, “Hey, the grass isn’t necessarily greener.” This is not an easy Design to have, and it may not work like you think it works, right?

Lynette: Well, the grass isn’t greener, and there is no grass. All we’ve got is ourselves. I don’t really know. We’re genetically predisposed to want what we’re not. It doesn’t matter who we are. So, there’s that. The grass isn’t always greener. It’s a great phrase, and I know exactly what it means. Everybody will relate to that, but my suggestion to anybody that really feels drawn to this- first of all, it’s like marketing. People think they have to sell it. Treating it like an experiment is usually my suggestion. Don’t worry, because the more you go through this, you just get your fractal, you get the right people, it’s the weirdest shit. In the last two weeks, I’ve gotten three reflector readings. I never get reflector readings, maybe once every six months, maybe. I’ve had three of them. I get all the people on my nodal lines, the 2/4s, I get to have a look at my returns. You just can start to see you get the right people.

What I like to tell people with this whole ‘Manifest Your Own Reality’, telling people that you have no choice- fine, everybody’s got a different way of doing this. What I like to say to people is “Look, if you want to have a vision board, you want to have goals. There are things that you want, you want to write in your journal, you want to do a new moon thing, you know, something like that, and you write it all down, that’s fine. If you want to experiment with your Design, be willing to let all of that stuff go, follow your Strategy and Authority, and see what happens. Give it some time to really start to see what happens if you’re a Generator, and you don’t pick up the phone to call your friend. What’s going to happen? Is your friend going to call you? Is the phone going to ring? Can you respond to the ring? Maybe they won’t call you and they’ll fall away, that relationship will go and somebody else will take its place. You can treat it like an experiment rather than absolutes. “That’s not going to work. It’s choiceless.” I always say, “I don’t even know how my blender works.” So, we can talk about Human Design from that standpoint, but otherwise, if people really want to try it, all you have to do is follow your Strategy and Authority to experiment with it.

Ra said, one of my favorite quotes from Ra, is that “Strategy and Authority is like a parlor trick.” It’s really funny if you think about it. It’s just happening anyway, and without the distraction of the mind constantly having us look somewhere else, and go here, and do this and that. It just kind of takes over anyway. It gives you something to focus on while you’re going through it. You can see over time, it’s a process. The whole Manifestor thing and ‘Manifest Your Own Reality’. I’ve done that, I’ve played with that on my own. I’ve written in my journal, “I’d like this, that, that, and that.” Then, I kind of laugh and follow my Strategy and Authority. Many of the things that I’ve written have come true in detail. How did I get there? I just followed my Strategy and Authority and let it happen. I didn’t do it. You know what I mean, with my mind where I said, “I’m going to do this the way I set out to do it.” I don’t operate that way.

Amy: I think it’s good to hear it in a lot of different ways.

John: Before we moved on, I did want to talk a little bit more about this concept of the fractal that we touched on. I’ve seen the way you describe it, Lynette, where there will be certain Design patterns that show up in session. I’ll start getting, say, a bunch of 20/34s for a while or a certain Profile for a while. I’ve seen it that way. I’m definitely seeing some of the nodal connections that you mentioned, and the people who come across my path but the other interesting thing I’ve seen is that my mind will start thinking, “You don’t have any sessions booked this week,” or “It’s getting really quiet, how are you going to address that? Do you need to do something about that?”

What I’ve seen is that if I just watched that and let go of the idea that there’s anything to be done, there’s this natural ebb and flow to how busy I am in my life, and how many sessions I could even handle that week with everything else going on. It just takes care of itself. I don’t even know how it works- like you’re saying with the blender. I don’t know how that actually works, but the sessions and the people who show up, I have no control over. My mind goes a little bit crazy when I think about the future; what if I don’t get one for six months? Well, it has never happened. They just come when they come, and the right people show up. It’s just amazing to kind of watch it from that point of view, just release any illusions of controlling, that I’m actually doing any of this. It’s such a trip.

Lynette: It can be very fun, too. For anybody that’s listening that feels like “Oh, my God, I don’t want to do this. These people sound crazy.” Everybody’s process is different. It doesn’t mean you’re going to light your life on fire like I did. In fact, I wouldn’t recommend that anybody do anything in the beginning. It’s just what happened to me. It is fun, and it’s beautiful when you can really see, and sit back. and just understand. As John was saying, life is happening all the time. Human beings, we’re so vain. We think, “Oh my God, we’re so self-important.” We’ve got to be doing something all the time because we won’t have this or this or this. “Oh my god, there’s no toilet paper on the shelves.” Seriously, it’s going to be okay. To sit back and let it go. Even as I say that, it’s so funny because what you’re doing is, you’re asking the thing that you need to let go of to help you let go of it. You’re asking your mind to let go. It doesn’t work that way. It’s sitting back from an observational standpoint, and it’s a process. I tell my students, I’m pretty sure I probably told you guys this, I live in a constant state of confusion. I finally just got to a point where I was like, “Well, I’m really confused all the time, and you know what, that’s not a problem.” I’m scared all the time. I’m the biggest baby in the world. I’m not a brave person at all. Now, my Design side has determination. It’s definitely very ballsy and brave, but I’m a big, scared, mushy teddy bear. I’m a big chicken. I don’t like to take chances, and I like to take chances on the material plane. However, if my Authority says to do it, I do it and it always works out way better than I could have imagined.

Amy: I think that was a big realization in working with this system was when those moments would happen where if I just let go- I call my mind ‘The Crazy Lady in the Attic’. I have a very active mind, she’s never going to shut up. Every once in a while, she says something cool to somebody, but she rarely says anything cool to me. That’s kind of always going there, but the moments when I’ve been able to just relax and let her say whatever she’s saying, to sit back and wait. Like you guys are talking about, see what shows up and then discover like, “God, I never would have gone after that. I never would have thought that this would show up in this way.” Now this whole thing is happening and I feel like I’m in a constant state of like, “How did I get here?”

Lynette: I say that all the time. “Oh my god, how did this happen? How did it get from there to here.” I’m looking at my Chiron, and I’m like, “Wow, this is really cool. I couldn’t have made this up.”

Amy: I could not have constructed this. I could not have written this out. Can you tell us about the Chiron?

Lynette: Well, anytime you go through these things like Saturn, Uranus, or Chiron, they can all be a bit of an upheaval, even if that’s not the cross name. It’s the same thing with the Chiron, it takes a few years to land. My Chiron date was in 2016, so it’s been four years. I can feel something shifting. What happened for me is I ended up in a relationship, which is crazy for me because I was alone for 10 years. I was fine, I was sort of over it, if I got to be in a relationship again, great. However, I certainly wasn’t looking. It’s funny, if I look at my partner’s- we’re the same age, we went to school together, and we’ve known each other since before high school. His Design Center Earth is my Chiron nodes, and my Design Sun is his Chiron nodes. I mean, you can’t make this shit up. It’s like it’s perfect. We’re both Manifestors. He’s a 2/4. The whole time I was like, “I can’t date this person. I’m not even interested in this person.” However, my Authority was pushing me, and I kept showing up for him. I was laughing. I’m like, “This is so funny. I’m not interested at all, but apparently, something inside of me is interested.” It’s the same thing, you just trust it. It gets really amazing. I feel like I’m entering a really interesting time of my life. I can feel something about a shift on the precipice. I don’t know if it’s moving. I don’t know if it’s some kind of expansion or contraction. I don’t know what’s going on. It feels really good. It’s scary. It’s kind of like on the edge there. You guys both are pure individuals, right? Yeah. It’s like being on a cliff. You know the tarot card, the fool, with the little doggie about to walk off the cliff. Blithely looking ahead, singing, not even realizing you’re going to walk off a cliff. It kind of feels like that.

John: Do you relate to the coming off the roof with the Chiron return in your experience?

Lynette: Yeah, the protective quality leaves as a 6-line being. It was palpable; I could feel it going away. It was scary to me, because I could see my next-door neighbor, when I lived one street over from where I live now, was a 6/2. He was not into Human Design at all and was just about five years older than me. He died very quickly of throat cancer, it just took him down. He just went out. I’ve seen 6/2s, and 6 Lign beings hit their Chiron and get really sick and die. I’ve seen it, so I was nervous about that anyway. Ra kind of scared the hell out of us. I could really just feel it, but we’ve got the best umbrella for the weather. You follow your Strategy and Authority, and it kind of comes together. I could definitely feel that being back in a different way. It just feels like you’re in it all of a sudden, in a different way. I don’t know if that makes sense. It’s like when you go up on the roof, you can still be in the world, do things, make money, and talk to people, it’s not like all of a sudden you’re a hermit. It’s the same, but it’s not the same. The feeling is just being way more involved in what I’m doing. It’s more close-up and focused rather than having a blurry background. It’s hard to explain.

Amy: I have a lot of 6-Line friends and I’ve sometimes described it as the middle phase of life feeling almost like being behind a pane of glass. You’re still interacting, you’re still working, you’re still doing whatever you’re doing, but it’s almost like some part of you is behind a pane of glass. You’re seeing everything. It’s not quite direct in the same way.

Lynette: That’s a really good way of putting it, being behind a pane of glass. It’s a visibility. It’s almost like more people can see me now, too. It’s something you’re more down and dirty in. That’s a really good way to put it.

Amy: As we’re finishing up here, I’m wondering about- now, it’s obvious you’re doing readings, you’re teaching, you’re deeply involved with the international organization, what do you love about teaching? What’s different for you now that you’ve moved from the realm of your own experiment which was always going on, to being an analyst and working with individuals, and then moving into this realm of teaching and working with groups more? Is there a big difference for you between those different things or is it as if you’re just ‘you are where you are’?

Lynette: I mean, I am where I am. There’s that aspect, always. What I realized is that there are always times when you’re like, “I don’t want to teach a class. I don’t want to do that.” However, when I notice what I love about teaching- I do everything online, I don’t like to meet people in person for classes or readings. I just don’t, I’m not a hermit, but I just don’t like doing it. What I noticed about teaching that I love is that my day-to-day life with people, my family, people around me, and my partner, for the most part, don’t give a crap about Human Design. I’ll talk about it. I’m like, ” If I have to listen to you talk about all this shit. You’ve got to listen to me once in a while.” So, we support each other, but it’s like they don’t get it. Half of them just think I’m nuts anyway.

When I get to meet with students and other people, they’re trying to do the same thing. It’s not easy to live like this. It’s like Ra said, “I have so much respect for my students because I know what you guys gave up. I know how hard this is.” When you get to talk to somebody else like that in a class or even right now with you guys, it’s kind of like standing on a rock and waving, “Hey, you guys, how are you? I’m doing the thing. Are you doing it too?” You know, it’s really hard, but isn’t it fun? Do you see what I see? Isn’t it crazy? Everybody’s asleep. Wow, look at all the people that are sleepwalking. I’m not asleep, and neither are you. Isn’t it cool? There’s that little aspect of it. Half the time I am asleep, probably, but I love that.

I also love to think about when I’m talking to people. It’s like, “Wow, there’s not really even a Lynette. There’s not really even an Amy and John and we are all connected in this field.” It’s almost like hearing ourselves talk and the differentiated potentials that we have that we can share with each other. For me, that’s such a beautiful experience that I can’t share with somebody else on that level. It’s different, and I love that. Sometimes I think that I’m teaching these classes just to teach myself. I don’t really look at myself as a teacher. It’s more like I show up, and as a manifestor, we’re just teaching each other. That’s kind of how I feel about it.

Amy: It’s really moving to me. I really feel that. What you’re describing is making me think of Ra talking about communing. This possibility that we can actually commune. it’s just exactly what you’re saying, like, “Oh, my God isn’t amazing. We’re all here together right now.”

Lynette: We can understand this language. It really helps me in my day-to-day life to let people off the hook. Like, “Wow, that guy over there is just going to sit in his car in the middle of the intersection and not move. I want to kill that guy right now. I had a really bad day,” or you’re talking to somebody and you’re like, “Wow, that opinion is really wack. I don’t like them at all, but maybe that’s their perspective. How do I know?” It helps you let people off the hook in your day-to-day life. Doing what we do, how do you explain it to another person? I don’t even know.

Amy: We say it all the time. We’re like, “This is a weird job. It’s pretty strange.” Sometimes it’s really hard, but it’s also just really beautiful. It’s such a trip.

Lynette: The one thing that I prayed for when I had that really big prayer before I found Human Design again, was that I wanted something true. Give me something true, those were the words that I used. For me, that’s what it is. It’s true. It’s self-verifiable.

John: I think our desire for the truth has to be stronger than our desire for comfort. That probably applies to a lot of situations in the world right now, but certainly to Human Design.

Lynette: I think so. Exactly what you’re saying, that’s true for me.

Amy: I just love and appreciate your particular energy. The way you share what you have to say impacts me in a way that feels just really moving, sweet, and powerful.

Lynette: See, that’s exactly what I mean. Nobody else is going to say that to me today, Amy. I guarantee it. Nobody’s going to say that to me all year. I feel the same way about you guys. I love what you guys are doing. I love seeing what you guys are doing on social media. I hope that it continues and that you keep getting it out there. We need Projectors. We need you guys. Thank you so much.

John: Thank you. This has been a lot of fun. It’s been great to have you on the podcast. You’re one of my favorite teachers by far. It’s been really nice to go through this process with you.

Lynette: My pleasure. Right back at ya’ JC.

Amy: Awesome, thank you.

Lynette: Okay, guys, keep it up!

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