Mark Germain, 3/5 Splenic Projector on Following One’s Authority, Learning From Experience, and Correctness in a Not-Self World


Published 08/04/2020
Mark Germain BodyGraph

Mark: I don’t see anything as ‘good and bad’, I really look at it more as ‘this and that’. I really do. We’re in this illusion, we all have a role, and some are more aware of that than others. That’s it, that’s what it is. The word that I would use most is reconciliation, it was really reconciling my past. Like, Don, you’re intimating all these different things. I was a young father. I was surrounded by Generators growing up. After that, I had a kid and was trying to be this person who had the capacity, the intelligence, the weather-all, and the talent to be successful in the business world. As a 3/5, having all these things just coming and going, bonds made and broken on a personal and professional level. I always say that I’ve worn a lot of hats and a lot of shoes. I think I’ve got a lot of tools in a toolbox to use from all those experiences.

It helped things make sense. I’m a right-minded Projector trying to be a left-manifesting Generating Manifestor. One day, a generator, both another day, and it’s like, “Why is this not working? Why is there no sustainment? Why is this so difficult? What’s wrong?” That even followed me when I got into a spiritual, metaphysical background, then I learned that I was very intuitive. All of a sudden, I was doing intuitive healing left and right. I was doing readings, in groups of people over the phone across the world. People don’t even say anything. I just started telling them all kinds of stuff. That was all new, and I read all these things and got very trained in a lot of system modalities.

I’m still like though, “Are you merrily Not-Self and not happy?” I called it “Enlightened Not-Self” later on. It’s very enlightened and aware, you can really look at things very differently, very cosmic in nature. A lot of things that I thought and said were exactly what Human Design was saying, just in a language and a system that articulated it for me perfectly. That’s why the first words I heard really resonated with me right away. When I heard Ra speak in one lecture, I was like, “This is it. I know this guy knows what he knows.” It still was like, “I know all this stuff. I can do all this stuff. Why is this stuff still not working out?” It’s funny. I think an important thing that Ra always said is even when you’re more aware, or you’re that passenger, it doesn’t mean your life is going to be any better, or worse, or whatever it was. It’s just how you deal with it. It’s how you see it. That’s the greatest gift; I don’t have that pain or that anguish anymore. No, I don’t have that. That’s gone away.

John: What you’re describing in that process for you, with the Enlightened Not-Self, was it the connection with the body that was not correct or in alignment? Is that part of it?

Mark: It’s funny as I used to teach a lot of muscle testing, applied kinesiology, all kinds of divination tools, and even techniques that I developed on my own using the body. I believed in a body’s intelligence well before Design, and it knows better. I think sometimes it works better with certain people than others; you need to be able to read the subtle energies of the body. I could tune into people’s bodies and know what they needed or not, or what they were allergic to or not, that kind of thing. I could tune into my own. I think it’s harder for a Projector to tune into their own body sometimes rather than others. We’re pointed to look out, not so much in.

I think my process of understanding the mechanics, reconciling my past, and understanding how the mechanics work was through my personal experience a 3/5 right-angle, personal view. I can see where they worked, but in connecting to the body, I had to listen to the spleen. I had to really learn and I had some hard lessons with the spleen where I had to listen to it saying, “Stop,” or “Don’t do that.” I was hearing something, it might be because my 48/16 is hooked up to my throat and my 43/23. I just know things and I can’t bend my hand anymore fully like a fist.

To give you an example, one time I was at my mother’s house and I put a cup down and I started walking away. My mind goes “No, go back and clean. Don’t leave it there for her to do, just do the cleaning.” I go back and I hear, “Don’t,” so I walk away. Then I go, “No, I know.” I talked myself back into it. As I’m cleaning this mug, it breaks. It sliced my hand open and I needed to go to the emergency room to get stitches. Afterward, I couldn’t close it all the way. This is one of several of these examples over the years, that listening to my body and my spleen could have saved me something. This is a reminder that says, “Don’t second guess what your spleen or your Authority is giving you. Don’t second guess what that is because it can lead to a problem.”

I think it’s about trusting in life. It came to the point where Ra would say, “This is not my life.” I’d say, “I could see that.” I already saw the magic before Human Design. I could see where if you’re aligning to everything as a nine-centered being, which is not about survival, that’s a seven-centered dogma. That’s not our trip. That’s the Not-Self worlds trip. If you really, as a nine-centered being, surrendered. What that means is that you get the life that you’re here to live with the least resistance or whatever that means. You’ll be taken care of one way or another. Maybe not in the way that you want, or that you would like, because that’s the mind projecting an expectation. That’s the devil and it really only causes a lot of pain.

I always recommend people eliminate any expectations about anything, including their experience with Human Design and what they think they can get out of it. Just let it unfold and see the beauty in it. I don’t know about you guys, but when I first heard it was going to take seven years with my Open Root, I was like, “Seven?” I was a Theta Healer. I don’t know if you know what Theta Healing is. It’s about going up and changing beliefs. People have done a lot of that, it was successful. I’m like, “Oh, you know what? I’ll just change that real quick, and I’ll be done in a year and a half. I’ll condense that and get that to work.” That’s the joke, the irony, the mind, and the Not-Self mind with an Open Root, just trying to make something happen faster. The ultimate truth is the process. It has been the gift, the trip. The experience of seeing it unfold and seeing the deconditioning over the years has been a gift.

John: That’s a good reminder. I think we get so focused on what we see as the end goal. “This is going to get me something or if I’m going to arrive somewhere,” and that may not be true.

Mark: Or it could be better than what you thought too. It’s about what brings you success, that inner feeling It’s that signature if you’re a Projector, or if you’re a Generator, it’s that satisfaction, if you’re a Manifestor, it’s peace, or for a Reflector, it’s surprise, or whatever it is. There’s some debate about the Reflectors and what they’re feeling. In that sense, wonderment, or whatever it may be, that they get as their signature. For me, it’s like, “Does it bring me that success?” I think what that is for me is helping guide others. I don’t know, John, you might have seen my post. I don’t know if he did or not on MeWe, I think I posted it on Facebook too. I really said, “I don’t really get to be me unless I have another person that I’m guiding or helping.”

John: I can relate to that.

Mark: It’s like otherwise, it’s killing time. “Are you enjoying this?” You’re doing this or you’re mastering whatever it is, or you’re studying. I’m always busy with Human Design. In and out or I’m watching a movie or something like that. I’m enjoying life, but without that other, really connecting to what’s important to me, and helping guide people, there really isn’t a me if you know what I mean? I don’t know if you’ve experienced that yourself in some way.

John: It reminds me of something that Amy shared where in a recent period, she was going through a lot of transitions and things were kind of all over the place, but she had a bunch of sessions booked. I don’t know why I’m telling your story.

Amy: This will be interesting.

John: What I heard from Amy was that when she finally got back to work, doing foundation readings or working with people, it just brought everything back in. It was a type of grounding in itself. Her experience is along the lines of what you’re saying.

Mark: I’m an all-hope person. I’m hope-motivated. If I’m helping somebody, and they’re more hopeful, and you could sense they’re more hopeful or they say they’re more hopeful, and they’re very encouraged about what’s going on, then I have this sense of success in that exchange. That’s good. I’m feeling more hope, there’s more hope. There’s a lot more hope, and it brings that purpose of the Projector being a guide for the other. It fulfills that purpose on a micro level, but that emanates outward. What if you didn’t have that, what would that be like? Whatever amount that is needed at any given time may fluctuate. You may need to have more and then less, it may fluctuate, but do you have enough? Is there enough to meet whatever necessary requirement there is for you to have that fulfilling sense of success? You’re living that signature, you are. You’re living that motivation where you’re hopeful instead of not.

Amy: I’m guilt.

Mark: John, you’re a hoper too? Oh, okay. You’re a theist, I’m an anti-theist. You’ll see me sometimes close my eyes, and again, it’s because I’m meditation on the motivation side. Closing eyes is where you can get really in touch with something or get deeper and share it outwardly that way. I can’t read my own little thing. Are you a six at that tome?

Amy: Yeah, I’m six. I’m guilt.

Mark: Oh, you’re guilt. This printout is a little bad, I couldn’t read it. You’re a 5/1. Yeah, guilt. You can fix things when they crack, but it’s different though. It’s still about Strategy and Authority. It still comes down to correctness.

Amy: Yeah, I love what you’re saying. When I first started working with Human Design, I gathered together with a group of Projectors who were close friends of mine. I ended up naturally gathering a lot of Projectors around me, and my birth family is all Projectors. What we discovered was that whenever any of us got too isolated, or too much in our own heads looking at ourselves, we’d get really spun out and destabilized. When we could come together and focus on each other, kind of like what you guys were saying, and have a process to guide or just have someone else to focus on who was wanting that attention. There’s something really grounding and focusing about it in a way that then all the other chaos kind of gets smaller. It feels more like “Okay, well, I’ll work out those pieces as I need to.” It’s a real grounding force, being able to focus on others.

Mark: That’s a good way to word using a grounding force. It’s like your own microclimate, that is who you are. You create your own little space, a pocket, where you can be you in that sense, and everything else goes by the wayside. It’s kind of nice that way. It’s not like life is so you can go walk in the woods, or you can go do this or that, it’s not that it’s bad or anything. You could talk about stuff that’s in the world or whatever, but it doesn’t have the same weight for me that having a nice conversation like this does. When you’re talking about something that’s more in line with what I find captivating or fulfilling, it’s talking about these kinds of things that you don’t get a lot of in the world. You have to be able to talk to people at a certain level, especially mechanically maybe, that takes it to another stratosphere in a sense, in order to really get that exchange. It can happen in a simple way too.

Amy: We definitely want to talk with you more about the Projector experience because I think you’re the first Projector guests we’ve had on the podcast in a while. So, we’re excited to talk about that. However, I feel really drawn to your spleen because I don’t think we’ve talked with anybody who has Splenic Authority. For anybody out there who might be curious about what it’s like to live with Splenic Authority as the guiding inner force within you. I’d love to hear about what that experience is like for you.

Mark: There’s 25/51, who’s usually first and a lot of things just happen that way.

Amy: Right.

Mark: It’s a matter of fact, it’s just the way it happens that it unfolds naturally. I kind of touched on some of it before. Again, I wasn’t very intuitive prior to knowing what my Authority was. It is a small voice, it is a small moment in here that you can feel in the body. It’s kind of a sensation of visceral lightness or tightness in the body, more of the solar plexus area maybe, where you can really feel where it would light up or not. It’s where your body kind of moves away or not, comes forward.

I also hear it. There are things I just hear that say yes to something or no to something. Usually, it can be either one. There are more nos than yeses because there are just more things to say no to than there are to say yes to. It’s something that you have to pay attention to because it’s something that your mind can easily overpower. The mind will also look for reasons. Even if you get a speeding ticket, and you have that intuitive hit, that says to do something or not to do something, the mind will want- early on, I can speak from my own process, your mind wants to find a reason. It’ll have this little back-and-forth discussion as to the merits of what this intuitive hit has given you. It’s like mental ping-pong, it capitulates back and forth.

It’s about just trusting, learning how to trust that initial hit no matter what, and not needing a reason. That’s a big point that I stress, it doesn’t matter what my spleen says, I don’t care. I don’t care, literally I don’t care. I just do it. I’ve learned to trust. I just know that whatever mental reason I can think of even after the fact doesn’t mean it’s even accurate. Why that may happen, I can see the pattern and why it was serendipitous, or why it was good. Why it doesn’t even matter because that might not even be the total picture. The spleen is part of that on the logic side, and that’s how I’m hooked up. It’s about patterns in the future. It’s about physical well-being, instinct, survival, and physical survival in your environment.

Someone was like, “Are you alright?” I’m barely breathing. It’s like, “No, I’m alright,” but I didn’t listen again. I couldn’t see what the spleen saw. It’s in the future. You’ll break a pattern just to illuminate an issue that was coming your way if that makes sense. Instead of arguing, “Why do I need to slow down? There’s nothing there, I should’ve just slowed down.” That’s another lesson as a 3/5, learn from experiences and discover through trial and error. When you hear, “Slow down, slow down,” don’t ask why. Just do it.

I’ll say, long before Human Design, long before I was into metaphysics and all that stuff, I remember driving. I had to drive to work early, at 5:30 in the morning. I had a long commute from out on the island into Brooklyn and I had to go through this stretch of pine forests. I normally go to 7/11, get my coffee, throw on my music, blast my music, and drink my coffee.

For some reason, on this one day, never before and never after. On this day. I didn’t drink my coffee, didn’t listen to music, and I was driving at 10-and-2. All of a sudden this huge deer jumped in front of me and I was able to stop, literally an inch from having the deer in the grill. Then, 10 or more deer just came right after this big buck. That was just something I wasn’t even conscious of, wasn’t even aware of. I was watching my body kind of do something different in a way, and it saved me. It saved the car, or at least it saved the deer. Certainly, it might have saved the soul. It just happened naturally. So, it can work that way.

Also, it doesn’t necessarily need to tell you something, it might just be a natural attunement. Otherwise, I think if you look at the Solar Plexus, people need time. They need time to process as the mirror image of the spleen. What are solar plexus people here to do? They’re not here to be spontaneous. So, what do they do? They act spontaneously, they make a decision in a moment. Meanwhile, the spleen people are here to make a decision at the moment. They capitulate and play mind games. It’s like ping-pong and mental gymnastics to see why they should do it, instead of just doing it in a moment. That’s the juxtaposition of these two Authorities mirroring each other on either side.

When you’re Not-Self, you’re doing the opposite in that moment of Not-Selfness, at least you’re not listening. I just learned to trust, listen, just hear it, and then surrender to it and do what it says. Again, I don’t care why. It doesn’t matter. You go to the right place to be with the right people at the right time. Whatever this is, you’ll be safe, whatever it is that it leads to do. That’s been my experience.

John: What you’re sharing here really points to a deep intelligence of the body that goes so far beyond what our minds can make sense of or comprehend. From the point of view of Human Design, the mind is not actually for making those types of decisions in life or navigating life through our mental processes. On the other hand, you’ve got the body and the spleen, which is something that’s been evolving for however long. It is the navigation mechanism that is supposed to take us through this life, keep us safe, and protect us.

Mark: Obviously, anyone who has a defined has consistency in that. When you’re undefined or open, you have an inconsistency. It doesn’t mean it’s not there, it’s just not one’s Authority. It’s not something that’s consistent there. There’s a difference. It’s a nuance. Being splenic at the moment, I often hear like, “No, don’t do that,” or it’s almost like I hear the opposite sometimes. It’s as if not doing it would be a mistake. It’s weird. It’s just a funny thing, but I just trust that I can hear it.

Depending on certain things I hear, I just know things about people or other things in life. I just hear it; I just know it. You ask a question, I can hear the answer. When I’m working with a Generator, I can hear them going into their mind before their gut. I can just sense it and feel it. I know it. It’s just there, it’s part of how I can know it. I work with people like that. I could know, “You want your mind first.” I don’t know how I segwayed into that. It’s something I’ve always found interesting. It’s kind of splenic, but it’s in the moment, the now. It’s being able to judge something in a way that you see it in that frame, whether you hear it or not. It is for me.

Amy: You’re giving us such great examples of the raw Splenic intelligence of the body. I love the example you’re giving about when it can happen without even your conscious interaction, like in your story with the dear. I’m wondering about the aspect of the spleen that also has to do with security and with relationships, how do you experience that play out in terms of bonding or relationships?

Mark: I mean, either something’s correct, or it’s not. You get to see if it’s correct to be in that relationship and for whatever that brings. This is the thing, especially as a 3/5, you get to discover so much about life. At least in my life, I can say I’ve experienced so many different kinds of things in the business world, metaphysical world, spiritual world, and life with all kinds of people in many different relationships. I was married and had a kid. I’ve been in committed relationships, I’m in a committed relationship. They bring different things, but it’s almost a discovery process about the self and about the other.

I look at it more abstractly. I was 64/47. I look at life abstractly and also logically, which Human Design lines up beautifully with. I look at life in more of a grander cosmic perspective, the big picture. I kind of look at life with this person like, “What do you know? What are these things that you’re learning from each other?” It’s not just all the normal seven-centered stuff that you do. There’s that, there’s always that, but it’s also about, “Alright, what am I learning? What is my experience here?”

You learn more about the mechanics when you’re intimately around them. If you’re teaching mechanics, and helping guide people with mechanics, firsthand experiences are definitely helpful at times. The emotional system, I’ve certainly explored that 59/6 channel numerous times. Generators, Projectors, and there are some others I don’t know- I think in that relationship, and that experience, you really get to see life in that context, see where you’re at, see where they’re at, and see where life’s at. There is no blame, no shame.

That’s a beautiful thing about Design, I love that. There’s no blame and no shame, it’s just mechanics. I see that so clearly. It took time to get to that place where you really can accept it, but it’s become clear over the years that there is no blame in it. You can’t blame anybody. I look at the world and all I see is the program working. I see the non-stop doing, the people are sometimes Self, mostly Not-Self. You want to flip the script too because you’re never going to get rid of the Not-Self. It’s like that 80/20 rule, 20% Self, 80% Not-Self. Let’s flip it around or some ratio that way. You can’t get out of it. It’s just about being something more than something you’re not.

I think that’s what’s been my experience, being able to see me through this process. Being myself regardless of different situations, and being true to myself, regardless of situations as best as I can. I think it’s been pretty good being true to myself, even to where people might not like it. Being steadfast and being true to yourself, there are a lot of people who don’t like that. You’ve probably both experienced it plenty of times where you were being true to yourself and your Authority said no to something. “What do you mean, ‘No.'” You’ve got to follow your Strategy.

I don’t know if you’re really following it as much as you’re experiencing life through your Strategy and Authority or your Not-Self. As a passenger, do we really have a choice? I don’t really see it that way. It’s more about raising your awareness and raising your seeing, so you’re more aware and have more consciousness that you can bring back to the totality. I guess I do see it that way. I really have no choice in that, but am I experiencing life as Self or Not-Self? That’s the way I look at it. That’s one thing that I do to help people, especially Projectors.

I work with a lot of Projectors, as well as Generous, but a lot of Projectors. It’s seeing, and awareness, and seeing from that neutral place as much as possible. To see from the mechanics that there’s no blame or shame, it’s just mechanics. To be able to just see life that way and be able to maybe share some of that big-picture context of what Design does offer, to put the life in is helpful to the mind. That’s the way it can heal the mind.

I think that’s what, John, you were talking about earlier, too, about your experience. Do you think there’s something wrong with you? That’s what I felt. As much as I knew, even I was like, “Oh, what’s going on here?” Who knew I was alight in Not-Self, but that was my trip too. It’s like, “Hold on here.” I’m doing this and that and I’m like, “I should be seeing things better.” Again, the expectations of whatever you think life should be at seven-centered conditioning, of the homogenized world, and the way the program works. The vast majority of people are Not-Self, that’s it. It’s not to blame. It’s not something bad or something good. It just is what it is.

John: You mentioned that you do a lot of work with Projectors. What are some of the challenges that you see Projectors having in today’s world?

Mark: We’ve already kind of talked somewhat about the expectation that you’re here to work, to have to make things happen. Most of the people around you won’t know HD so even if you’re learning HD, are you becoming more fluent and understanding what it means to live that actual life around other people who don’t get it? A lot of people are afraid of change. They fear change and the other. What does that mean to them and their relationship to that other? They don’t like it and you have to deal with that. It has really about when in your process it’s correct to commit to being that.

I was sharing that in a post earlier today. For Projectors, it’s such a radical approach. Ra said that for a Projector, you really have to be radical. There are no half-projectors. I always tell people on Facebook Human Design pages that everyone is born with a Design, but it doesn’t mean they’re living their Design. Living the traits of their Design also doesn’t mean that they’re living correctly as a Generator, Projector, or Manifestor. They have the Design of one, there’s the potential of it. It shows up sometimes so when they hear what it is to be one, they could say, “Yeah, that’s true. That worked.”

I remember being recognized and invited to things and I got a lot of success. Most of the other times when it didn’t happen, I tried to make it happen. There was no energy and I ended up quitting, or whatever it may be. There was no success, there was a lot of failure. Projectors have to understand that they’re just a very different type of person. It’s okay, we’re here and we have a specific role. We’re here to guide, not to do like a Generator, or make things happen like a Manifestor, but we can work at times when invited incorrectly like a Generator, or we can manifest correctly when invited to produce something when it’s correct. It’s not about initiating it out of the mind. It’s about really just following the Strategy and Authority or allowing life to fall from Strategy to Strategy. Whatever way you want to look at it, it’s still Strategy and Authority one way or another.

The other key would be to understand where one is being conditioned and where one is not. We’re the only type that’s actually technically here to be conditioned on purpose. That tells you something right away. If you were the only type that’s really here to deal with conditioning, it’s because we need to know how to deal with it. We know how to guide it. Again, I’m a 3/5, so I learned a lot of things that were not correct to do in this life for a right-minded Projector, trying to be a left-life, trying to make things happen again. It’s the experiential way, from the 41, to the 30, to the 36, to the 35.

Everyone says, “Oh, if we do this, do this, this, and this, we’ll get this.” Then, Gate 30, the Gate of Fates- I have a 30/30, Line Three, so it matches well with my third-line profile. Resignation is what it is. When you’re trying to do something, and it doesn’t work out, and life throws a deviation into your thing, your thought process is of how it should work, the way the world says it should work, and it doesn’t. You think something’s wrong with you. I can’t stress enough to people that we really are in dense conditioning, the program.

If anyone’s listening, and you have the Godhead program, which is quarter-by-quarter, I highly recommend that just to see from a macro level how we’re being conditioned. You could see, mechanically, from a bigger construct, why all these people are doing what they’re doing. Then, on a micro level, individuals on the surface area, surface mechanics, individually in groups, the wall, the penta-consciousness, all these things bombard us from sleeping. All these things that bombard us to be something we’re not.

I would say that a Projector needs to be aware of all these conditionings. Most importantly, they’re here to be recognized for their Channels, their Definition, the areas where they go to school, and where they can be wise about life and their openness. I would say find where the strengths and weaknesses are, find your Yin and Yang. I think that can help really put the Projector mindset in a way that can help it see. We need the details, we need to know how it works. We’re the intellectual types. Sorry to everyone else, those are Ra’s words.

I agree that there are intellectual Generators or Manifestos. Of course, we are here to study. We are here to look at the details. We are here to understand nuances in whatever context they may be. We’re here talking about Human Design, life, and living life. If it’s a Projector, we need the details. We need to detail so that we can see it in the other. I see that in myself, but I use what I see in myself not to look at myself, but to see and reinforce my truth so that I can see why I’ve seen the mechanics work in my own life. I’ve seen them work with them. They work now, you just have to see whether they work or not.

That’s what I would say for Projectors to really understand their conditioning, to understand who they are, what their Definition is. Most important is their distraction and their transference. Knowing what their view is or to know what their motivation is. Even if the other side, just knowing how you digest life, not just food in your PHS, knows how you take in life best as a metaphor.

The environment can be broken down metaphorically also. Even if it’s something that’s not happening in a particular place, you can look at it from that place. I would say if you understand the four transformations, at least from that kind of construct, that can be beneficial. Certainly, I would say, view perspective and motivation in terms of distraction and transference. Again, it’s how you see and how you do not see. The duality: you condition or you’re not conditioned. I don’t know if that rings true for you or if you would agree on that subject.

Amy: Now, it’s been hugely important to me. I love what you’re saying about how some teachers have said, “We’re here as Projectors to become masters of conditioning.” As you’re saying, a huge part of our learning and life, and a huge part of how we can be aware, and deeply aware of others is because of the depth to which we are conditioned by the people around us. That was a huge shift for me to see that as a gift and not a deficit in my life.

Mark: I think it’s a shifting of that mindset to see it because when you first learn you’re a Projector, it’s like, “Oh great.’ Then, there’s a lot of Projectors, like, “Oh shit, I’m a Projector. This sucks. What does that mean? This really sucks in a way.” I think by educating the mind- Ra said, you follow your Strategy and Authority, but if you really want to heal the mind, it’s through learning. Understanding these things.

For a Projector, they’re here for their mind. They’re here for their guidance. They’re here to direct and guide here. They’re not here- you know, the irony on the Fifth Line Body. I’m a big guy, strong. I used to lift, but I’m not here for that. I’m here for this. That’s the joke. When people see me, the other big guy, that’s the irony.

That line, I always lived in the irony. That’s one way to help you navigate life. That is another call. We talked about the human experiential way. I don’t know if you guys are familiar with it. I think it was in the format lectures that came up which are very highly recommended out there. The people, the format lectures too, they’re great lectures.

It’s funny talking about relationships. I was in a relationship with somebody, and she said, “These are my metaphysical years.” She goes, “I don’t know why, but I’m always competitive around you.” That’s a direct quote, and that’s true. You don’t need to be doing anything. It just happens. Just there. That Ego, 25/51.

John: I’ve done martial arts for about 20 years and one of the things I noticed doing martial arts- it was Jujitsu- is, I’d be training at a certain intensity. I wanted to kind of keep things chill. I’m tired, I’m a projector. I don’t want to go too hard. These guys would come at me and they would escalate, coming at me hard and strong. I’d be like, “What am I doing to bring this on? I’m not asking for this.” It’s just like what you’re saying, it’s mechanics. It actually became a big theme. How do I keep things cool and de-escalate because these guys are going to come at me strong?

Mark: I totally agree. The distorted 25/51 can be overly competitive or it can be too egoic. There’s definitely an unhealthy Defined Ego, but there is a certain level of swag, or confidence, or something that is definitely a different frequency than an Undefined or Open Ego. They just don’t have that.

What’s funny is that my son is a Generator and has an Undefined Solar Plexus, but in his process over the years, he was very competitive in basketball. He’d be the guide, always trying to win the game, diving on the ball, trying his hardest. He has to have the right environment. Over the years, we’ve been trying to instill in him just to relax and not be as competitive.

Michael Jordan who is considered to be the most competitive person in the NBA has an Undefined Ego. He’s the total amplification of the Not-Self. If you actually watched his series, which was interesting, he was really conditioned as a kid to be very competitive. In the remarks from his dad and his brother on how they raised their family, you could see where that Open Ego, and that competition, were really instilled and conditioned into him. It came out as an adult in an unhealthy, Not-Self way. There’s definitely a distinction between a healthy, Undefined Open, and even a healthier unhealthy Defined Ego. It can be too much. He’d be trying to say, “Hey, look at me, too.” That’s a projected channel, so you know, you’re also saying, “Hey, look at me, I won. I came in first again.”

You gotta laugh because if you don’t laugh at life… Well, come on, you can’t laugh at yourself. A Seven-Center of being can’t laugh at themselves. They take everything very seriously. You have to laugh at life, laugh at yourself.

John: On the topic of the Defined Ego, I was just saying to someone the other day that, maybe I was just saying this to Amy, “Do you ever just get tired of yourself?” I look at myself sometimes, my Ego and what it just naturally expresses from it. It’s almost cartoonish. I’m like, “Really, you’re going to put it out just like that.” It’s what you’re saying, it’s kind of healthy to keep this sense of humor, to hold this thing lightly and not take everything so freaking seriously all the time.

Mark: If you can laugh at your own Ego, be that a bravado Ego or whatever, it’s cartoonish if you can laugh at it. If the other person can laugh at it, I think that’s important. I think if Amy couldn’t laugh at it or didn’t know about it, that’s where the problem comes from. When you’re in a relationship, that’s where the issue or challenge could be, if you’re not aware of the mechanics, there’s no blame in that. John can help. Mark can’t help himself, being a Defined Ego being that it’s who they are, Amy doesn’t have anything to prove, nothing.

Ra had a saying, he did a bunch of readings, and then he had a saying with people. He’s like, “You get a free pass in life, you really do, with the Undefined Ego. There’s nothing to prove, not to anyone, not to yourself, you get a free pass.” Since most of the people who are out there are Undefined, 65% or so. Most of the people who are listening to this have an Undefined Ego. You don’t have anything to prove if you can surrender to that truth and let the Ego-beings be the Ego-beings and you guys be you guys. Everyone knows their role, and there’s no better or worse one, it’s just this and that. People can understand that and we can get along, we can have communication, we can have a Nine-Centered life. It’s not judgment, or bad, or good, or better, or worse, or I’m winning, or you’re losing. It’s not about that.

John: This is touching on something that Amy and I have been looking at recently. It’s that normally when you start learning about Human Design, you learn about openness and the Not-Self. All the focus tends to be put on the Open Centers, or the Open Gates, perhaps being the problem or the issue. However, one of the things that we’ve seen is there’s also a distortion of the definition that can happen through the openness of the Open Centers, but then you get these kinds of distortions of what could be correct, or of the Design. Is that something that you’ve seen?

Mark: No, we’re just saying the Defined Ego can be too Ego. It’s about commitment, it’s motor to commitment. You can maybe overcommit. It depends, it’s a frequency when it’s clean and when it’s not. That’s the thing. Whether you’re Defined or Undefined, there’s a frequency to it. Undefined or Open, it’s like a window as well. It’s definitely open when there are no hanging Gates. It’s clean, you really get to see everything and then if you have hanging then it flavors it, but in definition, you can be too much of something or distort it one way or another very much so. Even a Defined Ajna and Undefined Notches, make sure there’s a certain defined notion that can be overly certain or not. Being certain in the wrong way doesn’t mean- some things aren’t so crystal clear either. There’s nuance; everything has nuance to it.

Amy: I think you can see it very, very clearly though, especially if you think about Ego-Defined Projectors. I love just looking at the really simple, and I love looking deep in the details, but I also love the experience of really simple surface-level stuff. If you look at an Ego-Defined Projector with an Open Sacral Center, that simple theme of the Open Sacral Center not knowing when enough is enough, not knowing when it’s time to stop competing, stop pushing so hard, or stop trying so hard. It’s time to rest, like “Oh, stop.”

Mark: That’s probably the biggest thing for Projectors, that sacrilege, not knowing what to say and when can control all kinds of other things. We all have Open Routes, also Open Boxes, so you really can feel the world and the Open Route. At least I can, that’s where I experience the busyness of life. It’s true these things can influence the definition of Openness and where you’re being conditioned can distort the Definition. I always say everything’s a frequency. You have your own radio dial, either you can turn right in-tune or fine-tune it until it comes in crystal clear, digital, five-by-five, all the way out, or it’s the hope.

I think with time, you get more refined, but it doesn’t mean there aren’t situations, environments, and people in places that might impact you in a Not-Self way, no matter how selfish you are. If you’re in a group, at an event, or in a war situation, you lose some of yourself automatically anyway, you’re doing things that you wouldn’t normally do. That’s another context that I think people don’t look at as much, maybe they’re not as aware to look at it as much, how much influence a pencil or the wall can have on your individual behavior. How much lack of control you have over being yourself, how much you lose yourself. It’s like when people say in a group, “I would never do that,” well, you wouldn’t probably do it alone. In a group, you get that group mentality, whatever that was represented energetically, and it made you do something you normally wouldn’t do.

You see the news all the time. That’s where you can get distorted too. That’s probably why there’s not a lot of hope for the world in terms of really going anywhere in a profound way, I always leave space for that and hope for some kind of change. However, I’m a realist, too. I can see how the program works and that ain’t gonna happen. So, you’re dealing with a lot of conditioning. That’s why a lot of things can distort you too, being something you’re not, it becomes so easy to see after a while. I don’t know about you guys, but I just saw it. I look around at people and it just oozes out of them. It just is so good, though. It is what it is. What are you going to do, surrender?

John: It does seem like a frequency thing, as you were saying. More and more I’m finding that I’m kind of attracted or drawn towards a certain clean frequency, or there’s a certain taste to the energy that I’m taking on. That other feels good, where there’s becoming more of a larger discrepancy between what would have been attractive or acceptable to me before. Maybe it’s because I’m just continuing to align and decondition. At a certain point, you’re just like, “I don’t want that anymore. I don’t want to take that on.” It feels like compromising energetically on a frequency level.

Mark: I agree. The only thing I would heed caution to because I’m not a big believer in wants or likes, that’s a roadway to the mind. In those situations, for me, the way I look at it is like, “Alright, is it correct for me to be here or not correct?” For me, it’s correct for me to be here. I have to deal with whatever that is even if I don’t like it. I’d rather be in conversations like we’re having here than maybe other conversations that are not about these kinds of things if you know what I mean. I don’t have a lot of Human Design people in my physical proximity that I can go spend time with and talk at my other half or to do degree.

I have my son, who I have really great conversations with. He’s 28 now and has been really in this process for about seven or eight years. It’s really made a fundamental change in him. He’s at a place where I can have these kinds of really good talks, where I can work. We mentioned that exchange before where you have that other that you get your fulfillment of being you. That’s one outlet. Thank God for the internet. I love Facebook for that reason. I’ve made a lot of friends and met people in person through Human Design and clients through Facebook, and Human Design groups on Facebook. Those things are great. How often do you get to do that in person? That’s the thing, right? There’s not that many of us.

Amy: Can I ask you a little more about that relationship? There’s something that’s striking me about a couple of things. I’ll throw them both to you and you can see where you want to go. John and I are both Single Definitions in our Designs. The Defined Centers we have are connected to each other. For you, you have a Single Split Definition. I’m always curious to hear about this because I talk about these things all the time in working with people. I’m always excited to get to hear from inside the experience what that Single Split Definition for you is, in that relationship or overall. I’m really curious about what it’s like for you when you’re alone and also what happens when you get into relationships with how that shifts.

Mark: Then there’s the Self versus Not-Self side of it all too.

Amy: Yes, it’s a deep topic.

Mark: I always say life is context. Everything’s about context. I have three Bridge Gates, I have the 7/1 and 45 that hook up to my G, which is the 25/51 part to my throat, which is also my spleen, throat, and Ajna head that is connected to 48/16, 43/23, the 60s, and 4/47. That was always something that was a lot of pressure, the first Gate looking at this. If I only had a role where I could be a voice of influence, where I could be the leader who makes an impact and guides others. That first Gate with Gate Eight that I have, where can I make a creative contribution? Where can I be a unique role model? That sense of being that voice, that can contribute to my individual contribution and uniqueness to the other than to empower the other?

There’s also the 45 where it’s always a question of Not-Self. If I only had the resources, the money, then I could be in control of my life. I could have material success, where I can then take care of the tribe, the people I love, and stuff like that. Those are things where your mind is working and going towards trying to fulfill the 45 who really wants to be heard. I want to have, have, or have not. It’s generous. It’s a generous game. Hey, if I’ve got the resources, I’ll be generous, trust me. That’s the mind playing.

It makes you make decisions to initiate, work towards, find work, be that super slave, or where you can be those things that you think you’re lacking. Obviously, they’re not lacking. They’re opportunities to learn who are good at the roles, who are creative, or who are good leaders of resources, education, and stuff like that. Those things do come eventually by just living. It’s not about letting them control you and making decisions from that.

Now, I’ve been in relationships and am in one currently where they bridge the Seven, the One, and they are a Wide Split, and I bridge the Wide Split. So we’re 8 and 1, Single Definition. I’ve been in other relationships where the other person was a Triple Split. That’s different because they didn’t like getting smothered. They’ve been in relationships since then and I’ve talked to them. That’s something that’s always been an issue for them. That’s a Triple Split. The Wide Split is an interesting thing because as Not-Self, it’s probably one of the most difficult things to deal with. It’s not always when they’re being in that Not-Self state, it’s not about them, it’s about everyone else. That can come up.

For me, with those Single Gates, it’s more about me. If that was the issue in my past, it would be more about what was my problem. When you combine charts and they hook up well, there can be a sense of comfort in that. There’s a certain solidity to it. There’s a certain wholeness to it, whatever that may be in anyone’s unique situation because they are different in how that gets expressed. It depends on where people are at in their process, it certainly made a difference for me, being more aware than when I wasn’t. That to me is important context.

If it’s correct to enter into that relationship, it is what it is. It may not be the picket fence with the house and the whole dream world or whatever that is that the world puts out there as a goal for people to achieve in a relationship. I tried to live that goal. That was not something that was for me. It just wasn’t, it hasn’t been something for me in that way like it is for a lot of people I know personally that I grew up with or friends from back in the day.

I don’t know if that’s answering your question enough. You bridge your Split and you don’t do it in a compromise. I don’t know what your experiences are with two Single Definitions who are great being apart and being separated, who don’t necessarily need the other. Then, you come together, but you come together in a way that bridges you into this one flow of beingness. You always create a third person. What’s that third person like?

Amy: I kind of feel like that’s the biggest gift of Human Design in terms of relationships, where we all get fed so much about what the ideal relationship is, or what a good relationship is about. It’s fascinating to me to see each of us as individuals are this unique, never-before-seen creature. Then, you get a relationship together and it’s this third entity, which is also this unique, never-before-seen creature. If we’re trying to impose on both ourselves and the relationship entity, there’s some way it’s supposed to be. “If we just try hard enough, we can force it into some kind of shape or form.” We never get to discover, or actually see the unique thing that it is. It’s bizarre, it’s like going in and shoveling a bunch of stuff on top of something before you even know what it is.

Mark: I think that’s the expectation. If you let go of expectations, it always frees the mind because you’re always setting yourself up for some kind of mental dilemma. It’s never going to meet what you think it should be. We’ve been trained and conditioned to think things should look a certain way and when they don’t, we say, “Why? What’s wrong with me? What’s wrong with us?”

Amy: For the split, yes. It’s like the split that you’re talking about. It seems the same to me in relationships where if you don’t know the mechanics, and you don’t see what that is, as you were talking about in your own Design, then the mind can get obsessed with what’s missing and what’s wrong. I think the same thing happens so much in relationships, if we don’t see it for what it is, and let it be what it is, then we often get obsessed with what’s missing and what’s wrong. That’s exactly beside the whole point altogether. In the meantime, we’re missing out on the beauty and uniqueness of what it might be as it is.

Mark: The mind will always do its thing. You’re never going to escape the mind no matter how Self you are. The mind is still going to pop up, rock hold on the petty tyrant, right? The mind is the petty tyrant. My son gave his name Jackie Chiles from Seinfeld, the lawyer from Seinfeld. I know, he hears him now and he’s like, “Yeah, I gave him this name because I don’t want to listen to him. He wants to listen to his gut.” Our mind will always do these things, even when we’re Self, but it’s about if you are acting on that. Do you see it for what it is? Can you laugh at it?

That’s the thing. I think where any relationship has struggles, whether it’s with oneself or with another, is their inability to laugh or take things too seriously. It’s probably easy to say that now because of what I’ve experienced. If you’re new to it, or you haven’t been exposed to it, it’s easier said than done.

This is the one thing that I was when I was an intuitive. I was even saying just before Design when I got introduced to Design, I loved helping people but I wished there was some tangible thing I could give them. I wouldn’t have to say stuff. They had to rely on me when I shared what turned out to be my Outer Authority, wherever it was coming out of me. It was great stuff and everything but it was listed with something tangible, then you got the chart and your mechanics.

You had a way now to reconcile everything, see things for what they are, learn about it, and laugh at it with no blame and no shame. Just to be gentle and kind to yourself. Even though I don’t have the 57th Gate, I’ve got to learn just to be nice and kind to myself. I’ve got to because life is too serious out there. The beauty of this knowledge is just to accept what is you. I have 30 Line 3, which is the Gate of Resignation.

Ra said, see this is what I was talking about, it all comes back. To really protect one’s spirit, he said, “If you’re living your life correctly, thrashing Authority, corny, your Type, and everything. You’re listening to your authority, you’re following it, that’s what’s going on.” One way to protect your spirit is you take all the Lines of the 30th Gate and for each Line, you can, if you don’t have it- if you have it, you can do that Line to where it matches up with your Profile.

As a 3, it’s resignation for me. It’s very important to be resigned to accept what is, it is what it is. We live on a third-line plane, so everyone can benefit from that level of acceptance. Sometimes you hear resignation that has a negative connotation, but it’s more empowering in the sense of just surrendering and accepting what is when there are some things just not in your control. It’s no one’s blame or anyone else’s fault.

John, you need to be pragmatic, so when you’ve got to be, you need to be pragmatic. How do I deal with life? I need to be pragmatic. You’ve got to find that it’s going to protect your spirit, and your 5. We’re talking about irony. We’re talking about “This too shall pass” as a mantra. You have to be able to laugh at life, see the irony in life, laugh at life, to protect your spirit, especially as a Fifth-Line being. That’s so important.

I say, “It is what it is”. You’ll see me say that all the time on Facebook and stuff. It is what it is. It’s not just me saying it to say it, I truly believe it. I’ve experienced it. I guess you can fake it till you make it, but it’s really about taking that in now. It might not work as much with somebody who’s just new or not following their mechanics, Strategy, or Authority and living out their type. It’s correct, he kind of made that emphasis, I could see where that can come into play.

You can also do it on the body side and align it with the context of the body. I’m irony; I’m a big guy who’s known for his mind and there’s irony in that. It’s something that can really be beneficial to protect one spirit because we are in a world that’s bombarded by all kinds of stuff. Any little Keynote or little thing that’s in the mechanics that you can bring to accentuate frees the mind. It heals the mind. That’s what it’s doing.

John: I just looked at my Fourth Line in there. It’s burnout. It’s a 2/4.

Mark: yeah, you’ve got to kind of be on your body. You’ve got to be careful with how you let out things in your body.

John: That’s what we were referring to earlier.

Mark: You’ve got to be mindful of that. Especially for you. What is the One again?

John: Composure.

Mark: Thank you. Your body needs to be composed. In certain situations, when you’re dealing with your physical being, composure is going to help your body more in that sense. You’re right environment, correct? Or left? I can’t read this printout. No, you’re left. Even active, you can be composed, Like a ballerina of life.

John: On this theme of taking things so seriously, I’m wondering how you’re looking at the current world situation right now. As we’re moving closer to 2027, in the last seven-year cycle, to me, it seems like there’s this constant human orientation or drive towards basically controlling everything, controlling the environment, and overcoming nature. We’re going to be able to manipulate or control everything when history suggests otherwise. How do you see our current situation in light of what we’ve been talking about?

Mark: You see the breakdown of this period of time, right now, where the cost of planning is starting to break down. We also have two Crosses, a Cross of Maya. It doesn’t always get expressed. We’re in a first-line theme right now, background frequency. There’s a rise in fundamentalism, you can see that everywhere. This is the breakdown at institutions. You can see that going on.

We’re going towards a more individualized background frequency of the Sixth Line. There are going to be many role models that I don’t see- I see the world is staying Not-Self. Anything that we’re looking at, we’re looking in the Not-Self Seven Center homogenized context. For the most part, that’s what’s going to dominate the world. It’s a Not-Self Emotional Generator world, or a Not-Self Manifesting Generator world, or whatever that is.

I don’t see enlightened selfishness, I just see selfishness. Now, that doesn’t mean there might be pockets of people that can live correctly, in a Nine-Centered way. I could see that as something that could potentially happen. How long does that take? What does this timeline look like and how much is transition because things take time? The Cross of Planning people are going to be there until someone is born with the last Cross of Planning or whenever the last person with it dies. It’s the most relevant part that will hold that frequency. That could be 100 years or so where that still is a part of the background frequency of holding this illusion in place.

I see more selfishness. That’s the Gate that’s coming in, 55/6, that spirit. Again, I say everyone- I shouldn’t say everyone because that’s improper- has a great tendency, even people in Design or who are new to Design who look at the world and see someone famous, someone who is a Projector, or somebody who is doing good, and they assume that they are Self. I would surmise that just about everyone is Not-Self. There would have to be some kind of serendipity and luck to be raised in a world of conditioning, especially as a Projector to be Self. I don’t see that as something there.

They can maybe have jobs and have success, but are they making mental decisions? Are they doing other things? Are they in distraction, transparency, or any of these other ways of looking at life? I don’t see people living authentically after the shift unless they have some serendipity, or they have the tools of what Human Design offers. It gives a roadmap, a way of doing that. Again, it’s one individual at a time. You can go on Oprah and blast this out and it’s going to change everybody.

It’s why you never see anybody talking about Human Design on Oprah, that could have been a potential, but it’s so far removed. The idea of no choice, the idea of all these things, the mechanics, that are part of this larger context to see the mechanics. People get lost on the surface, and they limit themselves to the surface without putting the context of the surface in there. You’ve got to always go back to the surface because that’s where life is lived, but it’s in the context of the bigger picture framework.

The way I look at it, you have to understand that there is a program, there is daily weather, there are the Godheads, and there are ways of being conditioned and Trans-Auric forms that are Penta and Wa, that two people create a third person, and that entity needs to be respected as much as the two individuals need to be respected. This is very freaky stuff. Right, Amy? We’re freaks. Wave a freak flag.

In certain audiences, you look like a genius and others say you look like a freak. It’s the two sides of the coin. I have hope for certain people within the context of the population that are going to live correctly and have not been bogged down by Seven Centers survival, us versus them, survival of the fittest, or winners and losers. That’s all Seven Centered stuff. There are people in the world, very prominent people who exude that.

For me, I’m a personal view, so my distraction is power. My Bugaboo is politics. I can get dragged into that movie. That’s what I call it, I get dragged into the movie when I want to go into distraction or transference. It’s like I’m getting pulled in. I lost my ability to see myself within the movie in a way or I lost myself to this distracted view of politics and seeing winners and losers, judging people, and condemning them. If I was a Not-Self man, I’d have a field day in this world. I can go into depth and context and write out all kinds of things to point out how stupid people are, but that’s not me. That’s Not-Self me. I think that’s why I go back to distraction.

Transference is very important for anyone, especially a Projector, to really know. What are they viewing their life through? What lens? Is that formulating their Not-Self Outer Authority or their Not-Self mind? Are they really speaking their truth and being authentic? In my authenticity, speaking about this stuff is what moves me. I have the 43/23 as my notes in the six-line, six-color, second-tone. There’s uncertainty about what’s coming. It’s all those sixes, I have eight six-lines. It’s the most of any line for me.

I’m a 6/2 Chiron, Cross of the Clarion. That six has got to be up here looking around, and I’m a Mountain View person. It’s like, “All right, I see all you guys down there, but I can’t get into the muck.” If I go down into the movie, that’s where I get lost. When I look at the world, I just see, “Oh, this guy’s doing this. This guy’s doing that.” When I see this and that, I’m not condemning anyone or judging anyone as winners and losers, then that’s how I can see you view the world. Everyone has that view.

Amy: Once again, that’s beautiful, Mark. I really appreciate you being able to articulate it like that. I can feel it, just as you’re explaining it, how it’s very visceral. The way you’re talking about it doesn’t- there’s so much in Human Design that can just sound like words on the page, but when you really start to see it, when you really break through the shadows and the confusion of the mind, and just like you’re saying, see it for what it is, you can feel what all of this actually means. I can just really feel that through what you’re sharing.

Mark: When I do see it as a movie, this is not just me saying it’s a movie and mimicking something wrong mentioned or something. This is what I’m seeing. It’s like it’s Projected, I guess we open our eyes and create our own portion of the Maya, our contribution to holding this illusion together. That’s what I really see. That’s why when, and I’m closing my eyes again now because I’m going deeper, I see on an individual level that there’s hope. Now, I’m a whole person, but I see it as an individual. I don’t see it on necessarily a tribal level, or a collective level for the most part, for most individuals.

The mind is so dense. It’s so visceral and oozing of the Not-Self. It’s like in The Matrix when Agent Smith is like, “I can just smell it. I can taste it.” It’s like that. I don’t think it’s bad like he did when he wanted to get out. It’s like, “Alright, it is what it is. You’ve got to accept it. See it for what it is, there’s no blame.”

When I get sucked in a movie, I get sucked in a movie. I remember one time my other half said, “You know, you’re being Not-Self.” I’m like, “Yeah, I’m going to be a little more nutso for a minute or two. I’m enjoying this. Give me a couple of minutes.” It’s not like you can do anything about it too, but you can laugh at yourself. Like “Yeah, you’re right. You’ve got a good point there. I am being Not-Self this morning and I can’t escape.”

Again, how much of your day do you want to be Not-Self versus Self? A day, week, month, year, or years? Oh, you can’t escape the Not-Self, it’s always there. The petty tyrant is always waiting to suck you back in, or an environment or person can pull you into some kind of thing. That’s why it’s important to laugh too, because there’s no control over that. You just see it for what it is. I think that’s the key to Human Design: awareness. It’s the ability to see life itself. I think that’s the best gift that it has to offer.

I think the mechanics and life unfolds as it unfolds, but to free the mind of all that pain and suffering, that’s the gift. I laugh at myself when I know that I’m getting sucked into politics. You can feel it though, you can feel it in your body. Whatever your distraction is, whatever it is, you’re not selfish. You can feel it. It just permeates, it’s so visceral. You work with your body.

I like the idea of Aikido, though, because you use another person’s energy against themselves. My son had some books on that back in the day and Jeet Kune Do was one of his favorite books back in the day. It’s funny, he’s not really into MMA, but it’s so not him. He was very gung-ho in his teens and stuff like that. It’s so nice. It’s amazing to watch his transformation. If nothing else I do in this world, having seen my son get to where he is mentally and physically and how he understands himself, if I do nothing else in this life and I got that as soon as we hit this goal, and maybe even watch it. I would feel life was a success just from that because you could see it.

I don’t live with him. I don’t, but I talk to him a lot. I see him every now and then. To see him and talk about these things and how it’s impacted his life, and how other people see it as impacting his life, that’s what’s amazing to me. It’s not just following his gut because that was important. Some people think that just Strategy and Authority are alright. He understands that he’s a cave person and that he needs security. That was important for him because he always felt an understanding of why he needed that security to be creative. He’s very creative and very integration.

He’s a Cross of Attention. Tomorrow’s my birthday and tomorrow’s his half-birthday. He was born on January 3. We’re both a Cross of Attention, we just flipped the planets there. He has Gate 38 six times and 39 three times. Both his Nodes and his Sun Earth on the personality side. Then, a couple more 38s. He’s Integration too with the 10/57, 34/57, and the 32/54. I just love seeing that. I know it works. I see it on a regular basis, as opposed to clients.

You get moments of progress here and there that you could see, but having someone who you can see evolve in that intimately is amazing to watch. The transformation in the mind, the way they look at life, and the relaxed snus. Giving them the tools to see how to see life and to see the way it looks. To me, other people can have their own. There are lots of gifts, I’d say. That’s where I am in my process. Now, I can say that I’ve been doing this for 14 plus years, over 14 and a half years. I don’t know if you would ask me that in your 123 that I would have the same answers.

Amy: That’s what such a gift about sitting with people who’ve been hanging with it for a while. At some point, you just have to laugh. It’s such a trip. That’s harder to do, I think, in the beginning, when we come in with all the things we think are problems and all the things that we do actually suffer with. When we’re having a really hard time with the mess of what we’ve gotten ourselves into. It is very serious in the beginning, but there’s a certain quality of presence that I find in most people who’ve been working with this, digesting it, and living it for a long time. There’s a quality of presence that carries that thread of a certain kind of humor and acceptance about life, which is like such a relief in this world. It’s driven to so much craziness, so I found it really sweet.

Mark: I don’t know if you still have doubts in your mind about saying certain stupid stuff.

Amy: Oh, of course.

Mark: I recognize it for what it is. It doesn’t last as long. It doesn’t happen as frequently. The magnitude of it is not as bad. Everything’s minimalized in that sense. When it does happen, you just go, “Oh, that’s what that is.” You can identify, “Oh, that’s that.”

Amy: You’re cute. I call mine the crazy lady in the attic. “Oh, there she is again. There’s the crazy lady in the attic.”

Mark: I haven’t named mine, but I probably should. My son got a good name from there. I’ve got to figure one out. I don’t know. John, do you have a name for your-

John: Yeah, I used to refer to it as the trash dump which is not very positive.

Mark: Did Oscar the Grouch live in there?

John: It was pretty bitter too.

Mark: It’s such a trip, though. Life is so serious and you get around all the seriousness of life if you don’t have these tools. You do get dragged into a movie, but then the movie beats you over the head and you become furniture. I would like to say that people don’t understand that this just means you’re not living your life, the story, you don’t have that role. You just have your background stuff, filler.

Amy: That’s the object in a horror movie

Mark: Again, I go back to understanding that this is a process. You see a lot of new people in Human Design, and they like to fight certain things about it. We all did when we were new. We had beliefs about how things should be. I had a very spiritual and metaphysical background. Then, I got into Human Design and I was the theist to the anti-theist.

I did a course of miracles and I did a lot of energy work to train all kinds of stuff. It’s funny to see the progression to where now I don’t even like all this spiritual talk. It’s another homogenized form of communication, mystical, spiritual talk. I just like to talk. It’s funny because people bring that and you can feel it. No one is to blame, but you can feel it when people do that. That’s just part of it.

Some people fight the information, resist the change, and fight back. Some people. As time goes by, they see where they were fighting it. Other people go in a different direction. They don’t follow through and Design is not for them. There’s no bad or good in that. It just is what it is. There’s no blame in that. That’s the beauty of the system and of the world.

Have you ever seen Criminal Minds, the show? Have you ever seen the FBI profilers? It’s like they cut down the worst murders in the world, serial killers. I always said, “What makes a serial killer a serial killer?” They don’t even know what they’re doing. They have no control over what they’re doing. It’s like an impulse. It’s like something that’s part of them. It doesn’t excuse their behavior, what they did in that sense, but you can empathize and say, “What drove this person to the point where they’re needing that?”

Conditioning happened and then you blame the parents. Well, how about that parent’s parents, that parent’s parents, and that parent’s parents? We’re just dealing with layers of conditioning. I think that’s what this system allows, but it takes time. Before you know it, you’re 14 years in when you were just in the beginning or going for seven years. No freaking way I could do this in a year and a half. At first, I thought maybe it was a belief system. I’ll believe it away, but it’s not a belief system. The mechanics are there whether one believes it or not, at least that’s my truth.

Amy: Well, thank you so much. It’s been really fun to get to hear your perspective, resonate with you, and relate to so much of what you had to say. It was so nice to get to hear it from the outside.

Mark: Well, thank you. That’s another thing, things get lost like you said. Writing words on Facebook is a little different than expressing them and articulating them outwardly. I appreciate it. I really thank you both for having me. It’s been a pleasure. Again, anytime I get a chance to exchange like this, it’s a success. That’s what I feel. In me right now, I feel 16. They have more hope about life. You know what I mean? That’s what it gives to me. That sense is there and then you can ride that wave. You’re not emotional, but we can ride that wave of that frequency for a while, for however long, whatever.

Amy: It’s a beautiful thing.

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