Welcome to the Human Design Collective Podcast

Season 1: Episode 1

Published April 13, 2000

Amy: In today’s episode, we introduce you to our hosts and guides, Amy Lee and John Cole. Both are professional analysts and teachers using the human design system. We discuss what led us to this practice and how the Human Design Collective was formed. They were interviewed by NLP practitioner and Human Design Guide, Kendra Current.

Kendra: Well, Amy and John, hello. I’m excited to dive into a conversation here with both of you. I’ve known you for some time on the Human Design Collective, and have had my own journey with the work. Your work has been very much a part of that in my Human Design experiment. I’d love to just kind of dive in, pick your brains a little bit, and also hear about your trajectory in the world of Human Design. We’ll have an opportunity, I imagine, to talk about the collective, the purpose behind it, and how it’s been going for you.

So I want to start with both of you, who each came to Human Design from different perspectives. John, you have been an astrologer for many, many years, and found some things in the Human Design world that you just didn’t see in the land of astrology. I’m curious to hear a bit about that.

Amy, you practice many different kinds of counseling and therapy and dove into Mystery School Lands and got divination tools from various practices. Then, you found yourself in the world of Human Design. It seems like it’s been a slower process over the years of digesting the material and kind of growing in potency in terms of how it’s impacted your world. So, I’ll pause there and just invite both of you to share a little bit about your journeys, how you came into contact with Human Design, and what it’s meant for each of you. Right, who wants to start? Would you like to go first, John?

John: I was introduced to astrology at a fairly young age by my mother, who’s an astrologer. After an initial period of you could say, ignorant skepticism, I ended up agreeing to go get an astrology reading with an astrologer, which was pivotal. I went in pretty defensive and came out wanting to get as much of that knowledge into my system as I could to explore it for myself. That set off about a 20-year journey through various systems of astrology, going in and out of astrological practice at different times.

It was probably about five years ago now that an astrologer friend of mine dropped Human Design in my lap and said, “You should really look at this”. I remember my first reaction to it was, “What in the world is this?” It’s got the I Ching, the center, the chakras, there’s this body graph, the planets. It was a little bit overwhelming at first. I felt like there was something there that I had to explore and then find out. Once I started diving into it and finding out just what it meant to be a Projector, which is my type, was probably one of the biggest wake-up calls I’ve ever had in my life. It ended up explaining so many things that I hadn’t been able to make sense of in the context of the systems that I had studied with astrology, and just my own observations in life. I had gone through several periods of burnout and exhaustion. I had been basically exploring that from both a Western medicine and Eastern medicine alternative medicine standpoint. Human Design was actually the first thing that I found that basically said, “Hey, there’s nothing really wrong with you. This is not pathological. It’s just that you’re not operating in the way that you’re designed to.” I started understanding what that meant and I started experimenting with it.

I ended up taking, in comparison to Amy, a fast path. I dove in as deep and hard as I could and started taking classes pretty much immediately. Then, I went into Amas training and I haven’t stopped. It’s been a very interesting journey. You could look at it in the long term, we’re kind of starting with systems like astrology, but it’s been a bit of a crash course in Human Design over the last five years as well.

Kendra: What would you say, given your experience, is the most striking difference for you in terms of studying astrology versus studying Human Design?

John: I’d say it’s probably the emphasis on the body that Human Design brings. You could see that literally in the chart, where we have black and red, we have the mind and body, conscious and unconscious, or personality and design. I think that’s kind of what was missing. A lot of what I was working with in my life was a deeper understanding of my body, and how my energy was designed to work. I didn’t feel like I was able to get that in my understanding of these astrological systems. Although there are elements to it or aspects of it, it felt like Human Design really opened that up for me or gave me something much deeper and more practical to work with.

Kendra: Thank you for sharing that. Amy, your journey?

Amy: Like you said, I had studied a bunch of different systems. Things that were really esoteric, energetic, psychically based, and things that were a little bit of astrology. Then, I sunk in more with some somatic emotionally based therapies, a little more in the realm of psychotherapy. I was pretty convinced that I was going to go to school to become a psychotherapist. Then, I ended up having my daughter and found Human Design in the same few months. I found human design after my daughter was born in 2009.

It’s probably a similar thing. Two things I would say: the Projector thing really grabbed me right away, with me being a Projector as well. I also got to see right away that my whole birth family and my closest friends were all Projectors. That kind of struck me and grabbed me right away.

Also, pretty early on, I watched a lot of Ra’s videos, Ra being the founder of Human Design. I was really taken with him. I sort of loved and hated him simultaneously. It really got to me in some way. I just wanted to figure this dude out and try to understand, like, “Where is he coming from?” He would say certain things, and it would really turn me off, then he would say other things, and it would feel like it lit up my whole universe. So, it was really fascinating right from the start to come into things that way. Because I had a newborn baby, I didn’t quite have the time or the space or the focus to like to dive in as intensely as I probably would have, if it had been a different time in my life. The thing that it did give me, which was really beautiful from the start, was the chance to have a lot of birth times of a lot of babies. As I was interacting with young mothers and other parents, pretty much everybody had really good birth times. So, I spent those first couple years really just experimenting with myself, and my closest friends, and then observing these children, these babies. That’s still something that feels very special to me in a way because I have a good handful of young children who are now 10, 11, or 12 years old. I’ve gotten to see them through their development and having a sense of their Design.

So I took it slow, it took me a bunch of years to play with it in my own personal world. Then, I slowly started bringing it into my counseling practice and it just became obvious that I really wanted to go whole hog into Human Design as a system.

Kendra: So, the two of you met in the Human Design community, in training together, and then decided to create the Human Design Collective together. My understanding was that you saw that there was kind of a hole in terms of a kind of quality of support out there that you wanted to offer, particularly to Projectors entering into their experiment, and it’s kind of grown from there and including other types in the collective. I’d love to hear about your inspiration behind creating the Collective and how it’s been developing for you over time.

Amy: John should start with that, because I think it was sort of conceived through you in a way, and through some conversations that we had.

John: It’s really kind of interesting to think about. Looking back, I think it came from a combination of things that I was seeing and experiencing out in the world. When I originally came to Amy and presented the idea, we had been in the Professional Analysts training. We had been putting some study groups together and we were kind of working through the material together. We’d been having conversations together both in class and offline. One of the things that was kind of on my radar was interestingly, the coming global changes.

Without going too far into that, right now, we’re seeing something like that coming or happening. One of the original ideas that we had for the collective was calling it the Sleeping Phoenix Collective for the Cross of the Sleeping Phoenix. We thought that would have been a little bit too abstract, or that people wouldn’t even know what we’re talking about. That was kind of the original inspiration: let’s get together and study this, look at this, gather some allies, and see what this is about. We realized that most of the people I was talking with were Projectors and she and I are Projectors. We also saw the need to support each other to kind of create a space where we could look at things together and study things together.

I had been spending some time on Facebook, and there were a lot of groups out there for Human Design. There are some really smart people who have been in the system for a while. There’s a lot of good information, but what I was finding was that the signal-to-noise ratio was way off. You had to really go through a lot, digest a lot, and process a lot, especially as a relatively open Projector, just to get to the stuff that I found resonance with. It kind of turned into like, let’s kind of create our own little site of community where we could gather together with some friends and anyone else who is interested so we can study and explore together. It started off initially as the Projector Collective when we first launched the site. What we found was, kind of interestingly, that we needed a little bit more energy in there. We didn’t really want to be exclusive either. We wanted to open it up, interact with, and interface with everybody, anyone who resonated or was drawn to what we were doing. We changed the name to the Human Design Collective, just to kind of expand it and open it up a bit, and that’s where we are now.

Kendra: You’ve also begun offering Living Your Design courses through the site, and you have bi-monthly calls or monthly calls. One specifically for Projectors, and then one for all types.

Amy: Yeah. It’s interesting because I think a lot of what you can see out there, either in terms of people who are teaching courses or in terms of some of the different community sites. I think two things came up as John and I were having our initial conversations. One was that we both had pretty active practices. John was doing readings with people regularly, and I was doing sessions with people regularly. So one of the things we started doing right away, as we were in these analyst training, was trying to translate what we were getting from these formal classroom training that we were in and then comparing notes based on our individual practices. I think we were really lucky to have that because I could see a lot of other students in the classes who didn’t have a practice already established that was working with people. Most of their knowledge, or how they were assimilating it, was having to go through their own minds, their own experiences, or the few people around them.

One of the things I think that was attractive to us was to have the opportunity to be able to interact with people who were really studying this within themselves, but also potentially working with other people so we could all compare notes and really make it real and understand, “Well the book says this,” or, “Ra said that.” What are you actually seeing, and how can we learn from each other in a very real and experiential way? For me, and with my profile, that’s really, really, really fitting. I think as Projectors, and for me certainly being a really open Projector, I think we’re both naturally pretty interactive. Once we started to get into creating this site, I knew right away that we wanted to have live meetings. We were going to need to be interacting with people to make it real. I think that’s something that interested us both from the start- how does this become real? What is real about this whole thing? How can we explain it together?

Kendra: Well, let’s go there. I have this question that kind of emerged as I was thinking about having this conversation with you. Particularly for Projectors, there can be such a mind-candy element of absorbing this knowledge and just kind of accumulating information, but not really infusing the life with the experiment itself. In that sense, in a way, I’ve also seen where a lot of people can even go more deeply into self-judgment, or the quality of the so-called Not-Self, by making mistakes in their experiment, or whatever it might be. “I’m doing it wrong,” Or, “Do I know this or not?” It really isn’t about, “How well am I doing?” It’s really an experiment. So, I wonder if you would talk a little bit about this sort of Not-Self quality, versus what this is really all about as a process of exploration and coming into deeper self-love.

John: Yes, well said, and I agree. It’s too easy to take this knowledge and this system as something like a dogma, a belief system, or something that we end up adopting in some way that we then begin living our life through. In a way of living our life through more of a mental way than seeing if these points of reference that we’re given within the system are actually relevant or helpful in our own lives as we shift the way we look at things, as we change our awareness. For example, let’s take something simple, like waiting for the invitation as a Projector, waiting to be seen and recognized, what happens if I do that? What happens if I don’t try to get attention, force something, or initiate? How does that feel? Where does that go? What are the results versus when I do? As a Projector, as someone who’s very interested in systems, who studies astrology, and pretty much anything else interesting along those lines, it’s so easy for me to get interested in things just from a mental place. I enjoy that there is a certain amount of mind-food in all of this, but if it stays in that place, and if that’s all it is, or even worse, if we turn it around and start using it to limit ourselves, limit our thinking, or beat ourselves up with it- It’s counterproductive.

At best, it’s just kind of a curiosity at that point, or something interesting. At worst, it’s just another dogma or belief system that we adopt. I don’t really think it’s supposed to be that, I don’t. I don’t think that was Ra’s intention when he brought it out there. I don’t really think that’s what this system is for.

Amy: I would say, I actually found for myself that I was able to sort of absorb, remember, recall, and articulate a lot of the information pretty early on, but I didn’t feel a whole lot of ground in terms of my own experience with feeling that I could really feel secure and knowing that what I was saying was really true. There were some things that resonated with me, and that I could share, but in the beginning, I think for me, it was sort of floating things out to people. Then, seeing how they reacted to it or what resonated with them. I noticed early on that when I first started sharing the information with people in sessions, sometimes I would first share it and then people would react. If I said, “You’re not supposed to initiate as a Generator, you need to wait to respond.” Sometimes people would be like, “Oh, well, I don’t like that.” They’d have a sort of preferential reaction to it like, well, “I don’t like that. I don’t think that’s true.”

It became this process of trying to get beneath that, to, “Well, you don’t have to believe it, I don’t need you to believe it. I’m not even saying that it’s true, but can we look at it together and see, what if we examine your experience, how has it gone? When do you initiate? When have things come to you? How has that gone?” In some ways, I feel lucky that I had a good handful of clients that I was working with long term, so I could kind of float some of that stuff out to them and then work with them, or I knew enough about their history, to be able to play with it in a real way.

I think having that attitude of like, “I’m not an authority telling you how it is for you, but I’m sharing this knowledge. Let’s look together at your life and see if it shows you something. Does it bring you some kind of insight or awareness?” The second thing that I would see people do is sometimes I would share the information, then they’d come back a few weeks later and say, “Oh, you know, you said, I’m not supposed to initiate, but I really wanted to do this thing. I’m a Generator, so I’m not supposed to.” They’d be sort of pissed about it. I’d be like, “Well, it’s your life.” I’m not giving you this as a set of laws for you to inflict upon yourself. If you want to go initiate something, go ahead and do it, just do it with awareness. Pay attention while you’re initiating and see how it goes. That way, you are actually experimenting with it. I think people can get as much out of doing Human Design as wrong, as they can doing it eight. Do it either way, but just be aware while you’re doing it and take note of how it went. Then you’ll see if the information or knowledge holds up or not.

Kendra: It feels liberating.

Amy: Do it wrong, for sure. Go do it wrong.

Kendra: It would bring so much more levity to the exploration. I know you said, John, this might be a whole other conversation, but let’s talk about what’s on everyone’s mind right now. In a very unprecedented way, the entire Collective across the globe has their attention on the same thing right now. In the astrological community, through Ra’s work, and Human Design, we’ve been tipped off to these changes coming. For some time now, people have been talking about the great change- the turning of the wheel and entering into a new epoch. We’re seeing, maybe in a more accelerated way than we even anticipated, things shifting in such a dramatic way. As this is happening to both of you, as guides, what is your recommendation about working with the system of Human Design as these changes are taking place? There’s so much uncertainty everywhere, from fear and hysteria to maybe, much more opportunity for creativity to break through. There’s a lot happening right now. What would you advise people to do at this time?

John: I think it’s obviously very relevant to both our original vision for the Collective, as it has been something that could be useful or assist us during these changes, that we’re in coming together with others and watching, looking, and having awareness about it. For me, as you said, I had been looking at these changes for a while both through the astrological perspective and certainly through Human Design, with the global cycles, and kind of wondering what 2027 would be about. It really seemed to be kind of this abstract thing for so long to me like, “Well, that’s interesting. How is that going to go down? I wonder what that’s going to be like.” Then, all of a sudden, well maybe not all of a sudden, but it was actually seven years almost to the mark before the date that we’re given, or within months of that, that we start seeing very dramatic world changes. I don’t think there’s anyone out there who thinks that things are going to be the same going forward, or that we’re not experiencing a significant shift or change in our society and in the world as we know it.

I think the first thing, just generally speaking, it’s about awareness. Maybe I’m speaking from my Design, which I tend to do a lot as a Projector, but it’s about seeing, watching, and having awareness. I think that’s what’s needed in a sense, is some perspective in what we’re going through right now. That can be kind of hard to find in the mainstream at this point. I guess, more to the point, when I’m working with people, what I’m trying to emphasize, and if I’m able to provide some guidance, it’s to kind of start tuning and looking inward for the individual’s truth of what resonates with them, what seems true to them in their own experience.

In Human Design, we have something called Authority, Inner Authority for that. It very specifically talks about the process for each individual and how it may be different for each person. We can get pretty specific and detailed about it. That becomes part of this experiment that we’re talking about, testing it or verifying it for oneself. To me, that’s kind of like this big thing that Human Design seems to be offering or that I can offer through Human Design. This transition that we’re all in is for people to have another point of reference within themselves to come to some sense of clarity, truth, or awareness about what’s healthy for them. What’s right for them, how to navigate the situation that we’re in. It remains to be seen where this is going, but my sense is that it’s going to become increasingly important as we move forward.

Kendra: I had, in my own explorations I’ve thought about, “Well, okay, here’s the last seven-year cycle until the new chapter begins, in a sense. Is this material going to be obsolete?” What would you say for those who kind of question the transition we’re in now, into the next background frequency that we’re entering into, the validity of the experiment?

John: This is an interesting question. I think it’s going to come down to the individual. Some people are going to be drawn towards this knowledge and feel called to experiment with it, to work with it. Other people will not, and that’s okay. I think people have to check it out for themselves, just like we were saying earlier, to see if it resonates or holds up in one’s experience. I don’t think there’s any real value in trying to convince anyone of anything these days. I don’t know if that’s quite what you’re asking, but I think it’s another way of saying, and this is where it gets maybe more meta, is there this illusion that exists that I noticed? We all tend to think that we’re doing all of this, controlling all this, or that we have this total sense of agency in our lives. If you examine that closely, that starts to break down. Then, it becomes a process of again, “What’s true for the individual.” I’m trying to stay on topic, we can go all sorts of ways. I might need Amy to jump in and bring it back to center for me.

Kendra: Open throats, defined throats. Open heads, defined heads.

Amy: I have so many things to say, I don’t know how I’m going to bring it together. There are a few things. I guess to go back to the start of this, it’s so fascinating to me that- I remember very clearly there was a specific conversation, I think that John and I had both been kind of going through some different 2027 lectures. For those of you out there who may not know about this, Ra said that we would be going through this big global shift in 2027. I think at some point, we were both kind of going through these certain lectures, and then starting to have this conversation of like, “Oh my god, is this really going to happen?” This has been my experience with Human Design from the start, each deeper level I go into, I would be like, “Oh God, are you for real? Really? Is this what this thing is saying? I don’t know about this.” Then, I would start to go a little deeper, go a little further, and then observe it. People would be like, “Oh my God, there’s something to this stuff. It’s crazy.”

With the 2027 thing, I feel like that came up, and I think we were having this conversation that was like, “Is this really going to happen? Is this really going to go down the way he’s describing? The way we’re going to start to see institutions break down and governments break down and huge swathes of society going through all kinds of health shifts and bonding shifts? Is this really going to happen?” Now that we’re in this place, where it seems like, “Oh, it’s happening,” there are several things that I feel so grateful, so grateful, to have been working with through Human Design knowledge for a number of years.

One is what John was mentioning, the concept of Passenger Consciousness. This concept is that we may be much less in control of what is unfolding in our lives than we realize. If you’ve been working with this material for a while, and you start to actually see some truth in that, I think it makes it a lot easier to accept when there are things happening around us that make us feel out of control, or make us feel like we aren’t in control of things. That Passenger Consciousness concept is something that’s been really valuable to me to have a sense of.

The second thing is how intensely Human Design teaches. The intensity of the observation of the difference between our true nature and our conditioning experience. You get to work with seeing how deeply we’re each being bombarded with all kinds of energy and information on all different levels, from person to person to media, the global Information level, and how much we’re being bombarded with all kinds of beliefs and ideas that don’t necessarily have anything to do with us. This concept of Homogenizing Conditioning that comes through Human Design, I think, is a really valuable one. If you’ve had a chance to work with this knowledge and observe that, then you can see that there’s something to that. Then, you can start to recognize what it feels like when that’s coming in.

The last thing that I would say that I’ve really gotten both through Human Design and through a lot of different spiritual and somatic practices is just the teaching of how valuable it is to be able to watch thoughts and emotions and not identify with them. To be able to watch how many thoughts, and how much thinking passes through us that doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with who we are, what’s important to us, what we would choose, or how we would move through life. The same thing is true of emotions, how much emotional energy and intensity we might experience in our bodies that still doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with what we want or what would benefit us to do. I think to have those practices of being able to watch and not identify with those things, and to develop an internal kind of strength and sense of ‘I am something that’s beyond what I think’. It’s beyond what I feel, it’s beyond what I’m being told, it’s beyond what somebody next to me believes or wants me to do. I think having that kind of strength internally is something that people really need in times like this. I think that’s what Human Design can really be giving us at this point with everything that’s going on in the world and I think people need it. In my experience at this time, I feel like I’m in the eye of the storm. My life was already feeling like that, just in my own personal experiments.

I think there was some way I felt like, “Well, maybe the storm is gonna calm down, and then I’ll just have a nice settled simple life or something.” Now that I look at what’s going on in the world, I almost feel like maybe this is just the new normal. This is the era we’re entering into, what life may feel like that for a lot of us. That all we have is to be able to be centered in ourselves, or grounded in ourselves in some way that enables us to weather the storms that I think are probably going to keep coming in some form.

John: What comes up, in response to what you’re saying, is strategy and authority. You could kind of look at it as almost like a program or system interruption or something. It gives our mind something else as a point of reference to the Homogenized Influences that are coming in all the time, telling us how we should feel, what we should be doing, and what we should be thinking. Something like a strategy in terms of either waiting to be really seen or recognized before you speak or before you go into something. For a Generator, this is waiting to respond. It gives us an opportunity to kind of meet things directly as they are. To meet life directly as it is, rather than what we think about it, or maybe even what we feel about it in the moment. To have this other thing, authority, that we’re touching on, to turn inward and say, “How does this feel to me? Do I have the will for this? What’s my body telling me in this moment.” It is a bit like a pattern interrupt. It can break us a little bit out of this current that’s just moving us along. I think that’s ended up being a pretty big gift in all of this for us, for those who want to explore that and experiment with it.

Kendra: What do you think about the world view of ‘I am the creator of my own experience? I have some kind of creational authority’, versus ‘I’m entirely a passenger, and there’s no choice’. I ask that in the context of the recognition that the universe is still birthing itself, we’re a baby of sorts. As an individual in the larger story, we are moving along in space being held together, and the illusion of our separateness is part of the frame here. Is there a place for creativity, visioning, and a sort of self-agency, in the context of no choice?

Amy: I think when we’re saying through Human Design that we live in a no-choice universe, or if we’re saying, “I am not the creator of my life,” we’re really pointing to the fact of saying that the mind is not here to be the driver and the creator of life, but the body is an active guide. There’s a guidance system and an intelligence through the body, that’s here to be interacting with life. So to say, “I’m not the creator,” I think it’s very easy for the ego or the mind to get offended by that. Ra called that our vanity. It’s hard for us to stomach that we’re not that important, potentially, or our minds are not that important. Part of the witnessing process is actually not about being passive or being a victim. It’s about getting to sit back and watch how your body will naturally engage with life if you let it. If you let your body lead, it will naturally be moved. That becomes a co-creative process. It’s not that you’re not creative, it’s that you let something besides your little mind guide that creation. I think most of us get really inflated and distorted, on this mental conceptual level, thinking that our minds have a better plan for our lives. That what I envision in my thinking brain, what I want to create is going to be so important, and so much better than what life might hand me or what my aura might attract to me.

I think it’s a black-and-white kind of view that we go too easily. It reveals how identified I think we become with our minds. Also, the opposite I think of being a victim is actually getting to surrender and trust in something. What a relief, isn’t it great on some level to feel like we don’t have to figure everything out and come up with some grand plan that’s going to save the world and make our lives these spectacular experiences? What a relief, to me, to be able to trust that there’s something else going on. I can move with that. I don’t have to control it, I don’t have to dominate it, I don’t have to come up with something better. I find it to be a great relief and something that naturally becomes very co-creative, very engaged, and very alive. I think much more alive than a lot of the stuff we come up with in our heads.

Kendra: John, did you want to say something about that?

John: I did have a few thoughts about that. I think that there is a place for some sense of agency, choice, or what we might think of as free will or co-creation. It tends to be my default in most cases. There’s this old wood carving that we see around in astrological circles, I think Ra has it in some of the Human Design publications. There’s a guy sticking his head out of the sky and the clouds. It’s a really beautiful piece of art, but the symbolism of what that seems to be conveying is that there is another view. I think something like Human Design, and this system, allows us to kind of step outside of our normal reality context. To see things a little differently. To see them either from a cosmic perspective or the global cycle perspective or to realize simply that people are different. We can get outside of ourselves in a way. For me, it’s a kind of a question of levels or perspective. I think we have to operate with some sense of co-creation and agency. It’s healthy for us to do that. It allows us to play the game a certain way, to get the most out of life, in our time on this planet and being here. If we really want to step back and stick our head out of the sky and look at things, that’s where you start really kind of questioning some of these concepts like free will or self-choice. It’s a matter of perspective.

To say it another way, I think that we have to operate like that within the context of what’s referred to as the Maya. This consensus kind of reality that we’re all participating in, and I guess creating as we go, or that we’re moving through. That’s where things like strategy and authority become so important within that context. Now, if you were to step outside of that, or go beyond that, that perspective shifts again. You start really wondering, and asking questions like, “Wow, is it really any of this? Do we have control over any of this or does any of this really matter?” In the grand scheme, maybe it does. These are questions I simply don’t know the answer to and I will probably never know, but my open head sure likes to chew on them and look at them.

Kendra: Yeah, what’s coming to mind now, after hearing both of you speak, is what Ra has said about not getting the life we want or that we think we want, but getting the life that is there for us? I like to just ask, there are a lot of different kinds of podcasts out there in the world, and there are a lot of different ways to present this material- why a Human Design Collective podcast? Why now? Amy?

Amy: I think it’s a way to be able to talk about the information and find ways to relate it to real life. Find ways to make it integrated with life as people are experiencing it rather than having it be sort of sequestered in some kind of Human Design-only study. I think that’s part of what we both like to see is that we can relate the system to what people are experiencing in everyday life, and what’s going on in the world in general. To be able to have a conversation about it, and share it. I also think Human Design is gaining in popularity. I come across people all the time who seem to really like the podcast format. It’s an easier one for me, I think in terms of different media formats, I like the vocal aspect of it. That works for me, with my Design. I think there’s a lot that people want to know right now.

John and I also share this in terms of how we’ve studied, and you as well, Kendra, it’s an appreciation of being able to assimilate the knowledge from a lot of different sources. To really get to kind of piece it together based on this person saying this and I can see it’s coming from their Design, how they’re built. Then, now I’m getting the knowledge from over here, from different countries, from different cultures, from men and women, different types, and different authorities. I think that really appeals to probably all of us here. I don’t think John or I doubt that, or you either, are interested in being in some sort of like faction of this system, in any way. We’re excited to get to open this up, and maybe get to have some different teachers with different perspectives in here, and come at it from all sides. To me, I think that’s how we’re going to get after the fullest picture of what’s really going on here. That’s how I see it.

John: That’s in line with how I’m looking at it as well. A lot of that resonates with me. It’s interesting, being someone who has a lot of openness, an open head, and an open throat. To take it a step further, I’m a 2-4 in my profile. The two is the hermit, that’s kind of what’s out front. So, when I think about the podcast and going into this as a Projector, my interest is in other people. Either hearing and seeing other people’s experiences or hearing their awareness, what they’re noticing, what they’re going through. Kind of like Amy was saying, getting different people on here and hearing lots of different perspectives, as opposed to me sitting and talking for an hour. I really don’t have that much to say in a vacuum. I want it to be interactive. I’m really interested in others. That’s kind of my orientation going into this. I think it could be interesting. Ultimately, podcasts are informational and they’re kind of a form of entertainment. There are a lot of people, like Amy said, who are interested in this knowledge. If we can kind of, also to our point, relate it to what’s going on, what we’re experiencing, what we’re seeing, and kind of making it fun or a little bit, maybe less like mechanical or academic or something. Maybe then we can all enjoy this a little bit more and hold it a little bit more lightly.

Kendra: Is there anything in particular that we can look forward to?

John: Amy and I have some ideas about who we’d like to hear from. We’re reaching out and seeing if there’s interest in coming on the podcast and talking with us- some Human Design teachers that we really like, and other people as well. We want to make this about, if you could call it the community, or others, and it’s not so much about me, as I was saying. Our getting up there on some platforms is not really our orientation.

Amy: We can’t really say yet, we don’t know. We’re not sure who will be able to get in here, but I think we’re excited to get some different voices in here, from different parts of the world in different orientations. I think I would love to see us also bring in some different voices, working with different modalities as well. I think these concepts of True Self, Conditioning, De-Conditioning, and listening to the body’s intelligence, embodiment, and empowerment- those are things that are being worked with in a lot of different, really valuable, modalities. I certainly don’t see Human Design as the end-all, be-all of personal growth or awareness. So, that’s something we talked about with you, some of your experience as well. We have access to a lot of people who have studied a lot of things really deeply. I think it’d be great for us to get to look at the intersection between these different modalities and those themes of how, whether you want to say grow up, develop, become more aware, wake up, or become more embodied, more empowered, more alive, whatever terms we want to use. I think there are a lot of systems going after that. Human Design has its way, but I think there are a lot of places we could overlap.

Kendra: That sounds exciting. I look forward to what’s gonna come down the pike here.

Amy: Well, thanks so much, Kendra.

Kendra: Absolutely, yes. Is there anything else that you would like to speak to as we wrap up here and look into the future of Human Design and where it’s all going?

Amy: I think I would say kind of what John was pointing to. Two things that are really valuable in life in general, but especially in these times. I think one of them is to be connected to allies, people, or voices in your life that feel like a thread of sanity, support, or empowerment for you. I think that’s something that we all can really benefit from right now. Stay connected to the voices and the people that ring true for you, and resonate with you. Hold on to your sense of humor, hold on tight to your sense of humor. We’re living in a wacky world, and I don’t mean to make light of it, I think it’s something to traverse. How to really be with things that are happening that have extreme, intense, and often very painful consequences for people. At the same time, I think, we all need that release valve. Whether that’s to laugh, cry, or just go into a tear- I think many of us are going to be taken into territories of emotion that we don’t have words for. It goes beyond just something is funny or something is sad. It’s complex what we’re going through, so to hold on to some humor, to hold on to some lightness anyway that we can in the midst of the depths, I think, is also something we can help each other with.

John: I concur.

Kendra: Well, I really love you guys, and I appreciate this time with you, and that you’re just showing up to do this. I look forward to hearing more from you and continuing the journey.

John: Thank you, Kendra.

Amy: Thanks so much, Kendra.