Chaitanya FX on Social Media, Experimenting with HD, Emotionality, Projectors, and Identification with the Map

SEASON 1: EPISODE 15

Published 09/01/2020

Amy: Today, we are speaking with Chaitanya, who runs the Chaitanya FX Human Design Facebook page, one of the most active on social media. If you take a look, you’ll likely learn more about Design, see a lot of commentary, and find yourself laughing out loud. We were so curious about the man behind the page and are excited to bring his voice to you in today’s episode, where we discuss experimenting with the system, emotionality, being a projector, and what happens when we become overly identified with a map. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

John: Welcome to the podcast Chaitanya. It’s great to have you here. I guess we’ve talked a couple of times, but this is our first time to actually talk voice. You’ve been a little bit of a mystery man on social media. I know you mostly because of your Facebook page and the activity there. The wonderful memes and the Human Design postings inject, I think, much-needed humor into the Collective or into that medium. For me, that’s very refreshing. I’d like to start by asking how you came into Human Design. What’s your experience been with it to date?

Chaitanya: How did I come into it? Well, I came into it when a friend of mine sent me an audio lecture on the experiential way. I remember it was like six files or something. I didn’t know who it was, so I listened to it. I’m listening to it and about halfway through, I’m like, “Man, this guy really knows.” The reason is, right before that, I had really been studying up on Joseph Campbell, and the Hero’s Journey. This came right after that. It was like, “Oh, my God, this is just like the Hero’s Journey. You have the left-handed path and all that.” It just made sense.

I didn’t even know even who it was. I listened to it and said, “Hey, do you have any more?” He sent me another audio clip and I listened to it. I was just sort of curious, “Okay, where do you get this stuff?” I started searching all this and I got some books and started reading. I didn’t get a chart reading for probably at least a year, maybe two years after I got into Human Design. Then, I started reading my own chart from books. I think one of the first books I got was a children’s book. It was how to break down the chart, the Centers, and everything. I looked at that. A couple of years later, I got a couple of readings and I was fully on after that. That’s how I ran into it, through those audios.

John: It sounds like a lot of self-education was part of your process. Studying, looking at charts, talking with other people, and observing. Is that kind of how it was for you in terms of going deeper into the knowledge?

Chaitanya: I’ve never really talked to a lot of people. It’s always been a sort of silent project. Even before that, we were in a local ashram here which was a really great experience. It wasn’t just to do the ashram stuff, but we studied pretty much everything esoteric there like the old masters, gurus, and what they were talking about. The main teacher there was also really educated, so it was a very good basing for me.

On the back of that, I came into Human Design. I also have an astro background. That goes many years back. When all of this came together, it was natural like, “Oh, yeah, I have to look at this.” It just rang true. That’s how I got started.

I really didn’t start talking to anyone. I normally don’t really talk about research. This was like research at first I was going through because I had to prove it to myself. It’s always been that way. First, I was just looking for holes. “What’s this guy talking about?” That’s why it took a couple of years to find an Analyst, somebody to get a reading from. That’s about it. Right after that, I got on Facebook to look for a community because there was no one here and I didn’t know anyone. I just wanted to see if there was a presence and then I found these little groups, and that’s how we all got started.

John: The social media, Facebook, element is something that I wanted to ask you about. With a page like yours, with the amount of activity and the amount of exchange that’s happening on Facebook around Human Design, what does that look like? What are you saying out there on Facebook from your point of view? I know a lot of the stuff that’s posted is Human Design related and these memes. I’m kind of curious, are you creating these memes? Then, with your interactions, what does the landscape look like on social media in terms of Human Design and your perspective?

Chaitanya: I think it’s our gathering space. It’s like the Human Design nation. We are all over the place and all fragmented, all walks of life. There’s no common ground. I think these groups give us a good place to meet up, talk, exchange ideas and opinions, and ask questions. Maybe in big cities like L.A. or New York, you can have group meetups, but I think we don’t have those kinds of numbers. I don’t think we do yet. Imagine, on a platform like that you can get a couple thousand people on one page and talk about pretty much anything in Design, different life experiences, and everyone’s point of view. It’s amazing. To me, it’s like a buffet of ideas from different people’s perspectives.

John: Yeah. As you’re saying that, it really does strike me as pretty incredible. It’s almost like it goes hand in hand with the technological aspects of this System. You need modern technology to run a chart, for example, you need software to program. Now, we have this stage of human evolution, we have this ability to connect with people around the world and the globe to have these types of exchanges and these groups coming together. Going back just 20 years, none of that was really possible, or it wouldn’t be possible on the same scale. It seems like it may just be part of the evolution of the Program, where we’re heading, and where we’re going.

Chaitanya: I think so. I think Ra saw that early on. He was pretty big on Facebook. He thought it was a good way to reach people. I think it’ll unfold naturally, with open access and a free access level playing field. Everybody has equal access, I think that’s the way to go. I’m not sure how it’s going to evolve. As long as people are willing to participate, it seems like a lot of new people go there to find out what’s going on first. As you get grounded in it, people tend to move away and go back into their own lives. You don’t see them too often.

I used to think, “Wow, it’d be nice to have sort of an old group of people there that had been around for 20 years.” To have a group of those as the elders and be able to ask questions of them. However, I don’t think that’s how social media platforms are taking shape. It’s more for all the new people to come in, take a bite, and find out what’s going on. Then, they go on their way. There’s a big rotation. There are very few people who hang around for years, instead of a sort of watering hole, I think.

Amy: It’s interesting to think about how much of an online exchange there can be. It does seem like there are new groups coming online all the time on Facebook. As you said, it does seem like the place where people go initially. How is the experience for you in your personal life? I’m curious about how Human Design has affected your daily life, maybe in the offline experience.

Chaitanya: Offline, well-

Amy: Is there offline anymore? I mean, not in today’s world, but-

Chaitanya: Yeah, there is. I mean, it’s amazing, because people think, “Oh, you just hit that post all day.” It’s really because I’m working. So, I’m PRL, DLR. I need to be in a relaxed state all the time. Normally the trainings are hardly relaxing. It’s like the most intense kind of work you can do, like being an air traffic controller. What I do is I look at and do other things in between. I might play an online game, I might read a little bit, I might watch something, or I might make the memes you were asking about.

I make my own memes, the Human Design ones. There’s a lot of them that I do. I see something and I’ll save it and post it later. I do a lot of different things. I stay relaxed and try not to get sort of hypnotized by the markets and charts because I do a lot of technical work with lines and graphs and this and that. Just to clear up the online part, it started as something to relax and de-focus. Then, I refocus on the focus. That’s how it got started.

As far as offline, it’s great. How has Human Design impacted me? Well, gosh, it’s changed everything. That’s a big topic. Do you want to ask me something specific? How has it affected me? It’s affected practically everything from changing my PHS was a huge thing. I did it probably two or three years into the experiment. I stopped eating meals after dark, but then it eventually ended up after lunch, and now it’s around noon or two o’clock. I’m done for the whole day. It’s been amazing.

I get up around 4:30 or 5 o’clock because I have to get ready for work. You get up and you’re sharp. It has been unbelievable. Keeping healthy and fit and everything too. That part is very grounding.

To contrast, I would say I’ve been sort of lucky through the school of hard knocks; I figured out early on some of these things about invitations and waiting. Also, emotional decision making. Over time, it just came to me like, “If I rush into this, what happens? I’m just going to lay back, waiting for invitation and recognition, that kind of came over time. This was when I was going to college, and even a little bit after when I got into sales and had a business, advertising company, and all of that.

I was in sales and I studied psychology to help support running a business. I picked up early on all of these little cues that were being projected, probably. By the time I came into Human Design, I was waiting. I was like, “Oh my god, yeah, that’s true. He’s validating a lot of things.” Before, even though I knew it wasn’t executing at 100% efficiency so to speak. After you get it, it’s like, “Oh, yeah, this is it,” and that was it.

It’s been amazing since then. What happens is, you get all this extra free time in your mind. If you don’t have to think about so much, you don’t have to think about anything at all. The biggest change is that freedom. You don’t have to plan so much. I’m talking about how your personal life should unfold, not to ask why in your business or whatnot. You just sort of go with the flow.

I would say the biggest change has been the trust that comes in, like “It’s okay.” I don’t have to worry about anything. Boy, I’ll tell you, I couldn’t be any more thankful to Ra and the voice and anything else that’s around that, you can’t buy that. There’s no price tag on that. You can’t earn it. If you two meet together and you get it, you’re lucky. That’s it, there’s no beating around that. You can’t fake that either. You might be able to fake being spiritual, being nice, and all of this stuff, but you really can’t fake inner peace. You have to live with that, you can’t control that. It’s either there or it’s not.

I’ve learned some of that during the Ashram period, a lot of that is really forcing things to be a certain way, trying to fit this category, being spiritual, or this predefined persona. Ra basically handed it to you, “This is how you do it,” and it just happens. Then, gosh, you can’t be anything other than grateful.

John: Amy and I were talking about that a little while earlier. What a gift it is for those who it resonates with, and it’s the right time and place where it clicks. Human Design is the biggest gift I think I’ve ever been given and as a Projector as well, realizing what it meant to be a Projector. Even in a general sense, before I got down into determination, PHS, or anything like that, it was a huge wake-up call or realization for me. Looking back, I think, “I can’t believe I’ve been on this planet that long not knowing this or not having this as a point of reference.”

I ultimately thought there was something wrong with me like, “Okay, there’s something wrong or different or broken about you compared to the majority of what I see out there in the world.” There was just this huge relief. Was it a relief for you to learn about being a Projector and what that meant as an energetic type? Was it a similar thing or did it resonate?

Chaitanya: Did the Not-Self Projector resonate or was it just having the information?

John: Just having an understanding. For me, it was like I was trying to figure out why I couldn’t do what everyone else was doing. I didn’t have the energy that other people did, I had a different type of focus, or I operated differently. Human Design was kind of the first thing I came across, whether it was an esoteric system, a metaphysical system, or a modern medical approach that said, “There’s nothing wrong with you fundamentally, you’re just not living correctly. You’re not designed to operate this way.”

That kicked off this deconditioning process that I’m obviously still working on. It was such a big thing to even understand what that meant. The fact that I had this different type, which only roughly 22% of the population has, was like a missing puzzle piece. It explained a lot that I hadn’t been able to understand or work out elsewhere.

Chaitanya: Mine is a little different probably because of my background. I know a lot of projectors suffer and go, “I don’t have enough friends that have gone through these things.” For me, first of all, the energy thing was never an issue. I was in a lot of sports. I never thought I got tired. That’s probably because I have three mortars. Because I’m Left Angle, I’m always hanging out with people. I thought there was always some Generator, MG, or somebody hanging around with me, hooking me up.

Energy-wise, I didn’t even think it was an issue. Maybe later, as I got older, I would think, “Wow, I’m a little tired now.” I would say pre-Saturn Return, ears were all amped up being a Manifester. It’s very easy to hook me up to be a Manifester. Looking back, most of my horror stories are projected trying to be a Manifester. That affected relationships, mainly not intimate ones, but all relationships can be too abrasive, too aggressive, just to go go. Now, looking back, it’s like, “Oh my god, it’s so easy to see what happened.” It was me being a super manifester. That’s what it was.

As far as having sort of the normal Projector trauma, I think I’ve always felt like you can talk to somebody one-on-one and you can pick stuff up very quickly. I just thought everybody could do that. I didn’t think it was any big deal. A lot of these projected traits, before HD, I always took it for granted. Everybody can do that, everybody probably sees that. So I didn’t think anything of it.

As far as how am I different? Like, “I can’t do that,” or whatnot. Part of that, I think, is my mom’s conditioning. All I can remember is her telling me, “Oh, you’re great. You can do anything you want. You’re the best.” Perfect for 5/1, right? Perfect mom. She would just pump me up, like, “You can do anything you want. You’re amazing.” All these positive things. Then, that’s all I remember from her, this very encouraging language.

If anything, it was my dad who was like, “What are you talking about? You know you can’t do that.” He was always trying to be very secure. My mom is the opposite. “Go do whatever you want, be free. You can do it. You can handle it.” So, that’s kind of my background. I think because of that, I always had that mentality. Nobody could put me down because I would always think like that, “No, they’re the stupid ones, not me,” just through conditioning. It never even came to any kind of trauma. If anything, I probably caused more trauma for other people than to myself just by acting like a manifester. Looking back, I can definitely see whether my characteristics would come out.

John: I think, also with what you’re saying, it points to how different we can be even within the same Type. With all the variations of Types of Projectors, you have Motorized Projectors, Three Motors, versus Amy, for example, who is a Mental Projector. There are these common themes or common patterns that we’ll see across individuals of the same Type, but there’s probably more differentiation than anything. It’s kind of interesting to hear your story and how different it is as you have a totally different Design.

Chaitanya: Even among my children, I have two sons, and they’re both Projectors. It’s been really interesting watching them. I sort of got into it and we found Human Design when they were young. My youngest one was only about three. So I was able to put it to work right away. It’s amazing to see because everything that we learned on the technical side when you put it to practical use, you can see it. It’s true. You know, how the kids are responding and how they’re behaving. One is a 2/4, and the other is a 6/3, very different, but they’re both emotional projectors.

Amy: I love what you said about how whatever recognition you’ve found in this system, as well as in your other spiritual practices or studies, there’s something that sounds like deepens your sense of trust in life. You mentioned that kind of freeing up a certain amount of headspace or bringing a certain amount of peace that you can just relax. There are certain things you don’t have to be filled up trying to figure out, being worried about, or having inner conflict about once you have that kind of recognition and trust in life.

It also makes me think of how as I was looking through some of your Facebook posts, it was so fun. I was laughing out loud the whole time while I was looking through it. I think that’s probably the experience a lot of people have on your page and why they love it so much. What I feel from you, even in this conversation, is there’s this kind of lightness about you and humor about all of this. I’m curious about where that comes from for you.

There’s a lot of emotional definition in your Design, there could certainly be a lot of emotional intensity, I imagine. Yet, there’s also just the way your frequency comes across both on Facebook and in conversation, there’s just such a lightness. Has that humor always been a part of your life or is that something that’s deepened as you’ve gotten deeper into the joke of all of this? Where does it come from?

Chaitanya: Well, I think the joke started early. It’s always been a part of me, I would say it’s probably how I grew up with friends around, and it was never serious. I didn’t even realize it was something different or that would stand out. It’s just been a part of everything. The likeness, I think, I understand. A lot of the times, I get accused of like, “You’re not serious enough. You’ve gotta be more serious about this and that.” So, there are two sides to it: not being too serious and a little too humorous or too light-handed about everything.

I think there’s a balance. You have to find the practical balance that serves you. You have to be serious when you have to be, and I don’t think you have to be silly all the time. You’re serious when you have to be serious, and the rest of the time, you don’t have to be. It also depends on the environment. I think it’s a natural thing.

It might have to do with how, in my Astro chart, I have a Venus-Mars sextile. Normally, when you have that, those characters kind of come up. It’s very smooth and kind of light. They can get through a lot of stuff without fuss. It might be that. That’s the only thing I can technically think of as far as the lightness goes.

Amy: I sometimes associate it with a Fifth Line thing, too. I find that in myself, there’s a part of the way that the heretic comes out of me as Fifth Line. When things get intense, there’s just something in me that wants to make a joke about it or get a little bit heretical when things get really heavy.

Chaitanya: Look, there are all kinds of survival mechanisms. They keep us sane. I would say, “Hey, whatever works as long as it is working for you.” I have a Mercury-Venus conjunction. That’s what really helps me get through conversations without a whole lot of fuss and keeping it light at the same time. You said something about the space, about the emptiness.

Amy: Yeah. I think just about the space that you mentioned being able to have. Maybe there’s also a relaxation that comes when you have a certain trust in life.

Chaitanya: I think that’s the gift. I think all of this Human Design business- if that’s not the end goal, I don’t know what is. What else could it possibly be? I just can’t imagine. I think that’s at least the beginning of that, whatever the gift is, of being able to be in that state without having to try to be in that state. You know what I mean? You don’t have to anchor yourself. You don’t have to have any kind of meditation, music, or relaxation. It’s just there, and you resonate at that level. That’s your bass frequencies.

The thing is, it’s something that just happens. I was really watching after the whole Ashram experience and everything, I’m very attuned to the internal state. You realize it’s not something you can control, but it gets to that trust with the process. That’s part of the deconditioning. That’s the thing: awareness comes in and takes up that space that used to be used for idle thoughts and considerations. Then it’s like, “Wow, there’s nothing really to do.”

I know it sounds crazy when you say that. I hear other people say it, and then I’m like, “Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.” I don’t think anybody else is gonna relate to that directly because you had to kind of be there. You hear some of these gurus talking about quiet mind and peace and how you can get there. That’s the thing, I don’t think you can get there. I think you follow a process, and it just happened somewhere down the road because you have no choice in that.

It doesn’t matter if you’re standing on your head, or eating vegan, or whatever you’re trying to do. To sort of pave the way I don’t think it matters. What matters is that you clear up all the conditioning, and you’re aligned with your form. You’re allowing the form to be without trying to manipulate it or trying to right it. At that point, you fall into your base frequency, which is sort of that peaceful, observational level. I would say that’s the best thing. I was just thinking that the other day, that has to be the best thing. Looking back, maybe there are better things in the future. Who knows, but looking back, it’s the best thing so far.

John: It’s actually bringing up something interesting for me that I’ve been looking at lately relating to astrology. You mentioned your birth chart earlier. I believe your Sun is in Gate 23. That’s Taurus, right? So, there’s this idea or thing I’ve been kind of looking at, which is that certain quality of Taurus, which you could almost consider Taoist in nature. This resonance with or alignment with the natural rhythms of life or the earth.

As an Earth sign, Tauruses are often talked about as being slow or something. I don’t know if it’s actually that. I think it’s more that there’s an attunement and kind of receptivity there to the natural rhythms and order of things. I wanted to ask you about that, both in terms of your own experience and also looking out and seeing some of the extremes in the world at this time, and how to come back to a more natural balance of things. Do you have a sense of kind of where I’m going with this?

Chaitanya: I don’t know, I might. Maybe not.

John: I’ll say a few more things. It’s almost like how Human Design is, if you were to associate it with an older philosophy, it would be probably closest to Taoism. This is from my point of view, and just the natural order, timing, and rhythm of things, the diversity of life. Then, when I look out into the world, I see people who just want more.

We’re going to see a lot of what appears to me as extremes that are out of the natural order of things. People who are wanting more money or things than they actually need. Or, thinking like the Projector’s signature of success of will that means I’m going to get rich or people want to get rich. I think more and more it’s really just about having what you need and having enough. That, in itself, keeps things in a more natural balance or order. What comes up for you when you hear that?

Chaitanya: That’s exactly right. I think that’s correct. The way I see that being correct is how the Taoist way is basically effortless action. Once you’re aligned and you’re correct in your actions, it’s effortless. So, I think it’s the same thing. It’s the way you’re grounded, and you fall right into effortless action without really having to try it.

That being said, all the running around for material gain, well, that’s just the cycle we’re in and the Not-Self world. We’re going to run around and look for material things and security. I think that’s normal. I think that is natural. I think that is a natural thing. Anything outside of that wouldn’t be because everybody else will have to adapt to some pre-design sort of ideal.

All the things we’re manifesting and all of these other things are because of a lack of understanding of the Self. Ra talked about this a lot. First, you have to know your place. Once you understand your place, you’re fine with whatever you’re getting because you know that’s your place. It’s your life; you get what you get. Getting is not even an issue because you’re too busy looking at life. Now you can actually see.

That combination has to sort of be dialed in or fine-tuned. All of those factors have to be there, and they all kind of come together. Then, everything is okay. Until we can dial that in, those insecurities, are there security issues there? What about the future? What about the past? I can have enough normal things and then get the pressure to make more, do more, or have more. Then, you end up back in the rat race, which we’ve made to be the norm now.

So that’s the normal, yet we have to understand we’re less than 1%. The people that are studying, at least in the experiment. I think the thing, the way to get around, all of that would be just to be correct and get deconditioned. To sort of get aligned with yourself and see where life takes you. That’s where the appreciation should be. I think it’s amazing the places you can go that you never even imagined, and the people you will meet that you never would have even dreamt of.

That’s another thing that happened. I ended up meeting people and being friends with people. Before Human Design, I would always judge, like, “What kind of character is this? Does he have this, or does he have that? Is he intelligent?” I think everybody has a checklist, but all of that sort of fell away. Friends of friends, those who resonate, resonate, and those who don’t, don’t. The stuff they bring to you, tell you, and share with you. That’s a whole other department, but the universe talks to you through your fractal, and fractal could be your gardener, the guy that you buy vegetables from, or your friends that you hang out with that you wouldn’t have in your past life, so to speak.

They’ll tell you things, and if you really are paying attention then something they say could help you with something else later down the road. There are messengers all over the place. This is why you have to be in the right place. Everybody’s like, “Oh, where are my people? Where are my friends? There’s no support.” Well, you’re not in the right place. Support is everywhere. They’re lined up, just like in a marathon, but you have to be on the right track. If you’re running one block away from the marathon, you’re missing the whole thing.

That’s what I feel. That’s what I’ve seen, not just in my life, but in other people’s lives that are sort of being an experiment and trying to follow their form, right into their mind. Even my kids; it’s crazy how simple it can be, you just trust it. Trust the place you’re going to be, and it’s okay. There are only a few things you can do that you have some control over. One of those is just being able to trust. Don’t say, “It’s okay, let me just do it one time, you can do it.” Then, you do it one more time.

There has to be some inspiration, obviously, to do this. That’s why I said, “Look, if you’re going to get this, it’s luck.” In the old days, in terms of enlightenment, they used to say, “Well, there’s this grace. You can do everything, but there has to be God’s grace. Otherwise…” So, I think when Ra said, “Luck, it’s pretty much the same thing.” Without grace, you’re not going to get there. It doesn’t matter. You can dig tunnels; you can do whatever you want to do. I don’t know what the magic thing is; it’s a mutated action. You hope something happens, but there are no guarantees. I think there is if you really trust it.

Life can take you all the way to the edge, even push you a little bit and maybe let you fall a little, but then catch you, and you still have to be able to trust. I’ve been in those places, and I have an Open Spleen, so I can tell you this whole thing about fear of life. Things happening or not having enough of this or that. These kinds of things always haunt all Open Spleen people. Being able to get pushed into that abyss, having that Open Spleen, and saying, “No, it isn’t okay.” Now, once you can do that, you’re free, at least for myself. That was my big area, mt Not-Self area was a Spleen that had a lot of tightness, a lot of fear. Everything else is okay.

It’s this little splenic thing that you can’t really understand. It kind of triggers all kinds of things. The spleen has a connection to the mind. It’s a tricky little circuit. Once you can sort of face it, and understand like, “Hey, it’s okay, this is not threatening. It’s not threatening; it’s okay.” Once that clicks in you’re okay, I think then you can trust, we can’t go any further than that. Right? That’s the furthest you can push the fear to see if there’s anything wrong. After that, you can pull back, and it’s okay.

John: We’ve got quite a…

Amy: We’ve got a crazy thunderstorm. Can you hear it?

Chaitanya: I can, yeah. I can hear it.

Amy: It’s massive. It’s like rattling the house.

Chaitanya: This is great because normally it’s rainy season here. Normally, we get that in the afternoon, but today it’s nice and sunny. It’s a very nice afternoon. Yeah, I can hear it.

John: Open Spleen. I have an Open Spleen. Amy’s got an open Spleen. My understanding of the process of the Open Spleen is that it’s learning through experience. It’s learning through seeing exchanges with the world. It’s kind of just an adaptive immune system and learning what’s actually a valid concern or fear when you look out into the world now. Whether that’s on social media, in the media, or what we’re seeing out in the world.

I’m seeing more fear than I’ve ever seen in my entire life. It feels like one of the biggest conditioning influences that’s coming in, or the homogenizing influences, is around fear and survival and well-being. Would you mind just sharing your point of view on that in terms of what you’re seeing through that Open Spleen right now, having gone through a deconditioning process around that?

Chaitanya: Fear has been around forever. It’s just our ability to drum it up. With mass media and all these connections that we have now, it’s easy to drum up fear at a click. It’s sort of like when we saw 9/11 and the buildings falling. The whole way went through the planet, or at least the U.S., and you could feel it. I think we’re much more exposed to things that trigger fear because everybody has a cell phone, everybody’s looking at this, and that. The videos and hearing the news.

Those that are not connected are just fine. I have friends who are not connected and friends who are connected, watching this and that and world events. The people who are not connected, they’re completely clueless. They’re going about their life just great. Especially here, I have a lot of friends here who are doing their own thing. They have no fear of anything, not even having an idea of what’s happening. Again, it’s a matter of how you are being informed. How are you being told about this?

Given the Not-Self world, I don’t think it’s a big surprise. What else do we have for fallback, love? It’s always fear and anger. All of the Not-Self themes are there, just to be pushed at like buttons. I think the research into psychology, we’ve gotten so far. We know everything: how to trigger people, how not to, and how to subtly do it. We’ve, to some degree, weaponized it. We’re using it all over the place forever. Now, it’s just sort of the norm.

Again, right on the money here, unless you can make a decision as yourself, forget about it. What are you going to do, look around? Were you just going to find it on Facebook? Ra was right. That’s another one of those gems. You better get on this now. He said, “It’s not going to get any better.” He said, “It’s going to come to a point where two people will just run around not knowing anything or what to do.” I believe that. I think that’s true. We’re going to see that now.

Those who can get aligned and make decisions correctly for themselves will end up in the right places with the right people hopefully. They’ll have their life. You will always; we will all have our lives. It just depends. Is it going to be the correct one as yourself versus the one the mind wants you to play around with? That’s the choice. We’ve had that choice forever. You got introduced to Human Design, well, what are you going to do? You have a choice. Either you can test it out, and see if it works. See if it makes sense or not. That, again, is grace. So we’ll see.

Amy: You kind of started to mention it, and I’m curious about this piece you’re talking about with psychology and the Human Design perspective on emotions. Emotional energy is so profound. I’m curious about your experience as an emotional being. You mentioned having emotional sons. What has the Human Design lens on emotions brought to you? How did it shift how you were experiencing yourself emotionally and how you see your children?

Chaitanya: Well, this is another one of those things where I’m outside the norm a little bit. You guys probably saw that I have two Channels running into my Solar Plexus on the route. When you have two Channels running, it normally stabilizes the emotional wave. It’s not so spastic, or it doesn’t have the extremes. I didn’t know that until I learned about it. When I first started learning Human Design, I heard all these emotional people and emotional waves and I was like, “What are you talking about?”

I’m just about as flat as you can be emotionally. Most of the time, it’s just super flaky. Anybody that knows me will tell you it’s just super flat. Yeah, I can be light and laugh and whatnot. It’s very flat as far as the amplitude of the experience goes internally. The external exposure of it the amplitude is pretty flat. I see more of the amplitude in people who are open with one Channel, at least from the Root.

One of my children has both, and another one only has one. They’re all pretty tame so far, very quiet. Although the 6/3 is a little bit more on the emotional side, and more expressive, I would say. He’s also more artistic, and more into sculpture, drawing, and all these other kinds of artsy, creative things. I would say he’s the one that’s more expressive in the emotional sense.

Does anybody here, I haven’t had a lot of exposure, all my exposure to emotions comes from the outside. Either a partner or friends have always been unhinged emotionally. That’s been really educational. If you’re just sort of flatline, you can attract the opposite, which is complete, peeking out the amplitude of extreme emotional expression. You get the complete wild side, but you’re like the stable one. You have to be the oak tree and kind of say, “Okay, well, let everything go around.” After a while, it’s more entertaining than anything else.

To me, it’s like, “Wow, look at this.” It’s never been a big threat. I don’t have any involvement. I don’t get weaved into that. I don’t get pulled into emotional anything really. I can sit there and watch it and just be amazed by it. It is kind of amazing to me, probably because I can’t get there. I can’t feel. I’m not talking about depth of feeling, I’m talking about depth of expression of emotions. I’m talking about close to the unhinged level, either way, the upside or the downside. Did that make sense?

Amy: Yeah, it does. I think it’s a great perspective because there’s a lot of information about that out there, about the emotional process being extreme in some way or highly intense. I can relate to what you’re saying. I’m thinking now of some other emotionally defined people I know and there can be a certain stability test and being able to process the emotional energy that comes with emotional definition. It’s not always necessarily about expressing some kind of extreme or highly intense emotionality.

John: This bit that you mentioned about having two channels from the Root to the Solar Plexus as a stabilizing factor is really interesting to me. I’m not sure that I’ve ever really heard it put that way. Thinking about it, it does make sense. It’s very interesting to hear you mention it and then say it fits with your experience.

Chaitanya: Totally. It actually surprised me at first like “Wait, why am I not like that? Why am I not like the Definitions, the typical descriptions of it?” Once I understood it, it made complete sense. For me, if I can look at emotions and verbalize or break down the process, then people get to where they just experience it without being able to explain it. My younger son can experience amazing depths of everything, I think, but he’s unable to express it in language.

Experience, which is really how it should be, where I can actually sort of break it down and try to get that emotional experience into words, give it some kind of description. That’s worthy of it. It’s not easy. There are people that can do that really well, some of these 55s. I have some friends with very individual Definitions like that. They can just reach in there and find levels of emotional depth that I shudder at. I just can’t even get my toe into it.

I think that area is really amazing, that depth. They can reach in and still hold it together, bring it back out, express it, and explain what they see. It’s sort of like exploring deep space where you go into these areas and being able to express it and not just get lost in the narrative. Not losing the thread, but to write it perfectly, where it’s supposed to go and be able to talk about it.

Amy: So, you must find yourself in the position of, or do you introduce or share Human Design with the people around you as you’re encountering people? Do you define it or have that experience of kind of bringing it to them if they’re open to it?

Chaitanya: Well, in the early days, yes. That’s probably the first four or five years. I think I was very interested in telling people or at least hinting at it and bringing in all these people. I was still under the illusion that everybody wanted to hear about it. Later I found that I don’t have to say anything because people ask you about it if it’s correct for them. If the connection is correct, they’ll ask and it’ll happen.

As soon as I understood that, I forgot about him. I told him, you know, we talked about the unplugged life. I hardly think about Human Design or talk to anybody about it, unless the topic comes up from the other side. I would say after the first five years or so, I just really pulled back on purpose, not even bringing it up, and then it automatically took its rightful place, which is to just forget about it.

Just talk to people, being your correct self. Then, the right people come up and they’ll recommend somebody or they’ll bring a friend and say, “Can you call and give this person reading? Can you check their chart?” Then, I would talk about it and get right into it as deep as they want. However, no, I stopped talking to people about it. Even my kids. They all know what they have to know and that’s it.

For them, it’s not that I don’t have to talk because they’re in the aura. They pick up stuff without having to really give lectures on it. Now, I understand that it’s not proper to go pushing this stuff. It’s proper when this stuff makes it all come together. I’m not in control of that. When you’re operating in a grounded way, all that just happens. The right people show up.

People want to know, and the people that come are actually interested. They’re passionate about it and they’re blown away. It changes their life right away. It’s not like you have to keep calling, “Hey, how’s it going? Did you read that book?” There are no follow-ups necessary. It’s just all rolls effortlessly. Once I got that and let it happen, it’s like, “Hey, this is not how this should be. That’s not my business. It’s that person’s not business.”

It’s a lot about being a Projector, especially Fifth Line. A lot of this is about just watching. What you’ll see is a bunch of train wrecks about to happen, but you can’t do anything about it. You’re just sitting there watching. Well, okay, this train wreck is going to happen. Sometimes, if they ask, you can say something. If they don’t, you just have to sit and shake your head and say, “Well, that happened.” It’s just so normal now. It’s so normal it doesn’t even sort of stand out.

That’s really a lot of what you have to do once you’re not out there forcing anything, trying to make something happen, or trying to push them into Design. You just sit back, and all you can do is watch and see what’s happening. You see all of these mechanics in play. It’s like a theater. It’s like a 360-degree theater, with theater all around me. There’s nothing you can do other than watch. Sometimes, they’ll come and talk to you, and you talk back. Most of the time, you just watch. You hardly need movies.

John: Especially these days.

Chaitanya: Yeah, but I mean, it takes longer. It takes weeks, months, or years for these outside things to happen. You’re watching these mechanics, and some are train wrecks. Not all of them are, some are good things. You see all of these as a Projector, you see these things happening as they are unfolding. You kind of see the end results, and you can help them, but you can’t. I think that’s the correct way to go.

We just have to sit and watch until we get used to it. That was one of the hardest things for me to get used to, the watch. Bad things are going to happen to somebody, and you won’t say anything. Man, that was tough. Super tough. At least I would hint at something, drop a little hint here, or tell a story that would relate to what they were about to hit. At the end, you realize you just can’t do

Amy: I think sometimes as a Projector, and also as a Fifth Line and fifth color, which I share with you, there’s a, I guess I would describe it as I used to feel like if I was aware of something that I was responsible for it. I was responsible for doing something about it. That experience, for me, feels a little bit like what you’re describing. It was such a shift and liberation. It still is when I notice that I’m seeing this. I can see what’s coming and I can see what could be done about it. Yet, if there’s no entry point for me, there’s really nothing to do but watch.

Chaitanya: A lot of the time, it’s for their own benefit, the fact that you’re not jumping in. What I see is that they go through their process, it turns out good or bad, and they end up putting a bandaid on the bruise, and they get up and go, “I’m not gonna do that again.” So, they come to their own little realizations and move on. It’s one of the deepest conditioning factors, though, this idea of trying to save people, to help people.

My Buddhist background made it normal to help. To think like, “Wow, I should just sit here and not do anything.” Not that I didn’t try in the early years, right? You try and you see, nobody pays attention. They don’t care even if it happens. So it’s like, “Okay, I’ll just watch.” It’s not even that now it’s more, it’s just how life is.

John: I guess it’s being more evangelical about Human Design or something you find early on and then realizing that’s not really the way it works, or it’s not really helping the person, it’s not the correct role or anything like that. It reminds me a bit of introducing someone to plant medicine, for example, pushing that in any way, knowing that it may result in their life turning upside down or falling apart, becoming a train wreck of sorts. If the person is not coming to that on their own, or asking for it, or it’s not the right time for them, then it almost seems like a disservice. It’s just not not right. It probably won’t even really work the way you described, where everything just kind of clicks into place and flows. It’s easy, and there’s no effort.

Chaitanya: Exactly. I think that’s exactly how it is. It’s the natural way. I think they’re going to end up trying to manipulate everything. They’re conditioned to do so. Getting our hands off of the knobs and just letting the thing go. Unless you’re invited into that and asked, then you do what you can, and everything works better, obviously.

All the Projecting channels, everything works better, and the right information comes out. There’s a lot of background other than, “Oh, I’m just watching or not wanting to help,” because when it’s correct, it’s actually correct on a very deep level. Even the information is different. It’s another one of those goodies.

Amy: I love what comes through your frequency. It’s been really cool to sit here with you. The way you’ve been talking about magic and trust. I can really feel it coming through you, this sense that there isn’t that much for us to do. When there is, if we’re paying attention, we’ll know. It’ll just happen if we can trust in timing and the right players. We can relax, listen to our bodies, laugh a little bit, and take it easy. It might all be okay. In the meantime, watch everything that’s happening and be amused or amazed by it. I can feel that coming through you. It’s a really cool frequency to get to experience. Thanks.

Chaitanya: It’s been good talking to you guys, too. About this not doing, it’s hard to know someone’s internal process. There are all kinds of varieties of people out there. I’m not sure if that’s everyone’s proper place. I don’t think there is a proper place that we can define, so to speak, because who knows? The varieties are too big; there’s too much variability. So, no, who knows what the future brings? We don’t know what the process will take.

I’m looking forward to seeing that, to not making that some kind of end goal. That’s another thing, that’s not something I thought about. It’s not about me, I think it’s generally for everyone. It’s not something you know when you enter the experience or experiment. You can’t have a predefined goal of what you’re expecting out of the experiment. That’s why it’s an experiment, to see where it will take you.

A lot of the time, we have these predefined ideas. “My Gate is this. My crosses are that so I better embody that. How can I embody it?” A lot of these new people come in and they totally identify with the Gate, or a Channel, or a Cross, and then, “My so-and-so did that! This Gate wanted to do that.” I’m not sure if that’s the healthiest narrative because where’s that going to take you? You’re more and more identifying with the Gates, Lines, Channels, and the Crosses, and there’s nobody there to pull you away from that.

I somehow never got into that identification with the chart, other than to know me, “What’s the deal here? What are the mechanics here?” I never got into personalizing it or personally identifying with it. What I identified was the mechanics of the chart, not the characteristics. I’m just thinking about this now as I’m talking.

I used to hear people saying, “Oh, you know, my DIS and my Gait,” and they give a reason, from the chart to their behavior, characteristics, or how they came to some conclusion or some idea. I can never identify with that. I can resonate with, like, “How come I don’t do that?” I never thought much about that. Now that we’re talking about it, I think that’s probably not a good idea in the long run. If you start identifying with all the parts and characteristics, how the heck are you going to ever leave it all behind to go where life takes you?

That’s just a static shot of the mechanics. It’s not your potential. We have people sort of embracing Gene Keys because that’s the sort of higher end of things in terms of defining some of these characteristics. Then, we have people embracing the other side. The thing is to just look at the mechanics.

Just leave it alone and focus on your process, see where the mechanics will take you. That’s the mechanical side that’s going to carry you. If you’re identifying with the car, you’re going to miss where you’re going to be and where you’re meeting. I think it’s a big issue. I think it’s a weakness, and I think it should be corrected, or somebody should be lecturing about it.

Amy: It’s such a great point that you’re making. It’s been kind of incredible to me to see just how much information people are absorbing from the very beginning as soon as they come in contact with Human Design and kind of doing exactly what you’re talking about. I feel like when I first got into it there wasn’t access to as much information but I was also not inclined to or didn’t have the space and time to really dive into it that way.

So I feel like all I had was the kind of simple basics that laid the mechanics that you’re talking about. Looking back, I’m kind of grateful. If I had been in a different time or space in my life, I think it could have been a much more mentally detailed process or an attempt to match myself to the map. I agree. I think it’s one of the biggest pitfalls in a way, things that can really interfere with the magic. Exactly.

Chaitanya: It’s like what they used to say with the golden handcuffs. Yeah, it’s golden, but it’ll cuff you into one place. How are you going to move out of that? A lot of people coming into Human Design from an Astrology background know their charts. In Astrology, there’s a lot of identification, right? “Oh, I’m a Taurus. That’s where my ascendents are at.” A lot of this is “Me, me, me.” I can see easily, you’re getting into Human Design, like, “Oh, this is me, me, me.” That identification continues to stay there.

At some point, I think that should be part of the courses or people’s lectures. It needs to be a topic that’s out, I think. People should talk about it because nobody really brings it up. You don’t want to hurt the other person, I don’t want to, it’s very difficult to bring it up and say, “You know, we shouldn’t be talking like that.” You just can’t bring it up in casual conversation. If there was an official conversation about it, it probably would be healthier, and it would probably cut down the time they spend in this sort of runaway area of the experiment being identified with these things.

Once your mind believes something, you have a belief system. You only see things that fit the belief. So if you think, “Oh, I’m Gate 23. I’m supposed to say these things.” Guess what? You’re not going to see anything else. You’re just gonna see those things; your brain automatically fixes the filters, and boom, that’s what you’re seeing. You’re missing everything.

This goes back to when you let it all go and just sit there and watch it. Now, Ra talks about seeing and not looking. If you’re identifying, you’re always looking for the right identification which leads to actively looking for that. Otherwise, you wouldn’t need to identify. If you don’t identify, then you can slowly go into seeing, which is far greater than that narrow little identification or definition you labeled yourself with.

I see this on Facebook. We see it all the time, and it’s so innocent. You don’t want to get in there. Plus, it’s not my job. You don’t want to get in there and say anything, but nobody else does, either. They just continue. I’m thinking, “Wow, look at these.” It’s like ships crossing in the dark. They’re so close to getting it, but then there’s one little hook over here just holding them to their identification with their Cross, Line, or Color. That could spin you around and keep you there for years.

There are a lot of little ones like that in Human Design, where if you’re really not watching, you get hooked on that. You might never know because the conditioning forces are strong and they’re not working for you.

Amy: Yes. The natural mental manipulation that can come up for all of us is the whole thing. It’s really strong. I can understand why Ra said things like, “Don’t look at your Cross for seven years. Don’t even look at it. Don’t go there.” It’s going to happen if you just relax into the mechanics and be in the process of being aware, moment by moment, and living your life. It’s all going to happen.

Chaitanya: That’s the right. The right is that discovery of that self. If you’re already labeling yourself, how the hell are you going to discover anything? You already think you have it and you don’t. It’s a difficult thing. It’s not funny, right? That’s serious.

John: It actually is funny because I’m going to do the thing right now that you told us not to do. I’m gonna say that what’s coming through right now with my Open Head and Ajna from two 43/23 Fifth Line profiles is a heretical view. I think that what you are both speaking to is this frequency or resonance of individual knowing that goes beyond the mind identifications and then becomes more of an experience.

I think with each of your Definitions, there’s this kind of sense of like, “Do I just resonate with this? Is it the truth or not?” There’s something to that 43/23 that I think is the truth. It just brings it right through in this kind of, again, heretical way, and it’s based on seeing and looking at what guys are saying. Anyway, I’m just having fun watching. I’ll go back and forth on it.

Chaitanya: These things are easy to decipher, you can just dissect them and see, “Well, can it be true from everything we already know?” We know that it’s impossible to be identified and, at the same time, trying to be liberated in some way. You can’t drag all those anchors unless you’ve cut those ties, labels, and identifications. Are you going to move?

Especially being a passenger, you’re being carried around. The whole point there was about, especially, new people. I see a lot of people identifying with the Gates and Channels. It’s not a hard thing to do because that’s in your Definition, but it’s not you.

Anyway, I don’t know how that came up. I think it’s something that’s happening, I don’t think it’s a good idea or a good thing that’s happening. I think it’s a good thing to address it, talk about it, and get it out in the open. This way, we don’t have a whole lot of people sort of nailed down to these old tricks of the mind.

Amy: Exactly. I really appreciate you saying it. I think it’s really important and helpful. It also speaks to that sense of- I remember being in my early 20s, in Hawaii, going on some kind of pilgrimage to find this Buddhist monastery. I found it and I walked in, and at that age, I didn’t have a whole lot of awareness about what kind of state I was in. I walked into this temple, and this monk walked up, and he looked at me. I said, “Is it okay for me to be here?” He said, “Yeah, it’s fine.” Then, he started to walk away. He looked at me and he was like, “Just try to relax, okay?”

We didn’t have any exchange at all, it was literally 30 seconds of him being in my aura. He was like, “Just try to calm down, okay?” I think sometimes that’s the way it is with stuff like this. It’s like, “Actually, we could let go of the grip about 99%, and it’s all going to be okay.”

Chaitanya: Again, that’s one of those things you don’t have to pressure yourself to do. You don’t have to throttle it. It just happens. Sometimes, you have to do certain things that might appear to be Not-Self or whatever, but that’s part of life, too. It’s not like you live some life of purity. You live your life on the average. You want to get on that moving average. That’s correct. You want to move along on the average, the correct path. We’re going to go up and down and do this, and then get into all kinds of crazy. However, you correct yourself naturally. You come back to the median line.

Amy: Really cool. Well, thank you. Thanks so much for talking with us. It’s really cool to get to hear your voice and feel your frequency after getting to enjoy what you create out there and seeing how much people enjoy it. I’m glad people will get to hear it. I know several people, too, who are very excited to hear you speak. Thank you for being with us.

Chaitanya: Well, thank you. We can do it again, for sure.

John: Until next time, then.

Chaitanya: Alright, you guys have a good weekend.

Amy: Okay, thank you so much.

Chaitanya: Thank you. Take care, bye-bye.